KIERAN GILBERT:
First with me the new cabinet Minister and Minister for Small Business Bruce Billson. This is the first time I have seen you since swearing in. Congratulations.
BRUCE BILLSON:
Thank you. Thank you.
GILBERT:
On the carbon tax issue the Labor Party and its members argue they’ve got a mandate, as well Bruce Billson, and is that not the same argument that the Liberals put back in 2007 about the Opposition then.
BILLSON:
Labor can run that argument but what is absolutely clear is the election result. Front and centre was the abolition of the carbon tax. I heard one of the Labor leaders saying look why has Labor lost a million votes, I think it was, or more than a million votes since it was first elected under Kevin Rudd. Well the answer is they’re not listening to the electorate. In the small business community they are hurt by the carbon tax. No one has been hurt more by it. No compensation, no carve outs, no hush money, expected to absorb those costs when they’ve already got business pressures to contend with or pass them onto consumers, which many can’t, because customers and households have their own cost of living pressures. So the carbon tax is really central to put the business back into small business. Labor has got to respect that. If they’re wondering about what it going to happen after this ongoing internal discussion they are having, how about listening to the electorate, the electorate has made it clear. Abolish the carbon tax, the Coalition has a mandate for that and I’d urge whoever comes out of this Labor leadership process, respect what the voters want.
GILBERT:
What about the voters in their seats? Clearly they have voted for it haven’t they.
BILLSON:
We were thoughtful and respectful enough of the voters after the loss of the election to the Howard Government to accept that Labor had a mandate on industrial relations to changes. You know of all these case studies where we said look, we fought against it our policy position was clear, Labor won the election. Okay, okay, you implement your agenda. Why doesn’t the reverse apply here? You know I don’t understand why the Labor party wants to ignore the vast majority of the Australian electorate and not answering its own question of why a million fewer voters support Labor than when Labor was first elected.
GILBERT:
As Small Business Minister, as I said in the introduction, you are going to be in cabinet now. You’ve already flagged that you’ve spoken to the tax office. You want to cut red-tape for self-employed and contractors, do you recognise that there is a risk there of sham contracting which there has been a fair bit of evidence of in recent years?
BILLSON:
The laws are there to deal with that Kieran. Let’s not get sucked in by the exception and then argue that then applies to everybody who is self-employed is an independent contractor that’s been the problem. But there has been a coordinated campaign by the previous Labor Government and unions to go after independent contractors, to go after them in key sectors of the economy. Why? Because they would rather have people contribute as employees and then allow the union movements and workplace regime to have influence over that contribution. But for more than a million Australians they choose to contribute to the economy as being self-employed, as independent contractors. The law is there that establishes who is and who isn’t an independent contractor and self-employed and who should be treated more appropriately as an employee. The law is there. What I am looking for, and what I have been discussing with the Tax Commissioner, is a fair and judicious implementation of the law.
GILBERT:
Aren’t they already doing that though? In 2011 there was an audit, field audits done of contracting. They found I think upwards of a thousand cases.
BILLSON:
That show you the key point I am making.
GILBERT:
Tax adjustments had to be made by the tax office because people weren’t paying enough and they were dodging the rules.
BILLSON:
And there is my point. The laws are there. Implement the law for people doing wrong things. What we are finding are examples where there is a unilateral judgement that someone isn’t deserving of an Australian Business Number, an ABN. Now that decision, very hard to challenge, very expensive to challenge. Yet one of your colleagues, a journalist, when contacting me about this story said I am one of those people. I worked as a contractor but I got denied an ABN, there is nothing I can do about. That denial of an ABN or withdrawal of an ABN very difficult to challenge, effectively stops that small business being a business and there is very little recourse to deal with it.
GILBERT:
But more broadly than that. That’s an example. The ATO is generally doing a good job is it not in enforcing the law?
BILLSON:
We are encouraging them to be like a service provider like the policeman. Yes important responsibilities, incredible powers but providing a service to the community. Best done collaboratively with mutual respect. That’s what we are encouraging, that’s what the Tax Commissioner has as his own goals and we’re supporting that work as well.
GILBERT:
On the ABN example though. What are other examples where authorities have been guilty of overreach?
BILLSON:
We’ve seen in areas in the building industry additional red-tape and reporting burdens imposed on contractors in that sector purely to generate a bureaucratic obstacle to a construction enterprise using a contractor than direct employees. In the information technology space, computer technicians offering their skills as a contractor, that should be encourage, that contribution of self-employment and independent contracting is an important way to contribute to the economy. We want to support and encourage that, make sure it’s done lawfully, make sure the laws are encouraged but don’t put needless road blocks in the way of people who want to create their own opportunities, create wealth and add to the restoration of economic prosperity.
GILBERT:
Do you think that the authorities have to be cognisant, as you say, well you know, doing it collaboratively, that they’ve got to be aware that some employers might be looking to shift people onto contracts to avoid sick pay, annual leave and that sort of thing.
BILLSON:
No question about that and the laws are there to deal with it. Where we seeing action and some examples that I have raised with the Tax Commissioner is where there has been a unilateral judgement with no recall saying you’re not a business. They’re saying hang on, on what basis do you say we’re not a business and you denied me an ABN and under the current laws to have a business name you must have an ABN and if you’re denied an ABN you can’t get a business name and if you can’t get a business name you can’t engage in commerce. Now we are saying there are extraordinary powers there and laws that delineate who is a legitimate contractor and who is not, apply those laws, be thoughtful to the reality of the marketplace and what enterprising people are doing to try to make their contribution. That’s what we’re looking for.
GILBERT:
You’ve also got carriage for competition policy in the cabinet. The Government is going to implement competition review, similar to the Hilmer Review of the 90’s. In a nutshell what is the aim and what industries specifically do you see as would benefit with a leaner approach?
BILLSON:
It is an economy-wide review that recognises that the tool-kit that we have today was largely conceived 22 years ago, yet we know the economy has changed, we know the way business transactions have changed. We know in some areas such as supermarkets there has been quite an incredible concentration that then puts pressure into the supply chain. Those that are suppliers to supermarkets are concerned about their own opportunities to pursue their own economic self-interest when they know they’re so dependent on just one or two or a handful of customers. Parts of the law that have thought to perform in a particular way, when tested in the courts haven’t performed that way. We’ve got codes that aren’t living up to their billing. The horticulture code, the previous government started a review of that five and half years ago.
GILBERT:
So its economy-wide, how soon will it be up and how soon will it be completed?
BILLSON:
We’ve already commence discussions on the terms of reference we hope to have a draft out before the end of the year. Consult on the draft and get cracking into that work, important work about making sure we’ve got a competitive economy but where competition is on merit not on muscle. Where just because you’re big, you don’t create a new serfdom of a small business being told when and how and if they can profit, how they should invest. That’s not good for the longer term interest of consumers; it’s not good for the longer term interest of the economy. That’s why we want to make sure we’ve got the tool kit fit for purpose for today’s economy and the merging one. That’s the work we’re really keen to get into and that terms of reference work is already underway.
GILBERT:
Minister, thanks for your time.
BILLSON:
Great to see you Kieran.