SUBJECTS: GROCERYchoice website
JENNIFER BYRNE:
Let's talk about groceries and a Federal Government front bencher has gone in to bat today for the Federal Governments much maligned GROCERYchoice website. Victorian Labor MP Bill Shorten - not heard of much lately - popped up to dismiss critics of the website as 'intellectually lazy'.
We approached Bill Shorten for an interview, but his office referred us to the Assistant Treasurer, Chris Bowen, who has carriage of matters concerning GROCERYchoice. I'm happy to say that Mr Bowen joins me now on the line.
Good afternoon to you.
CHRIS BOWEN:
Good afternoon Jennifer.
JENNIFER BYRNE:
Now, that was a bit rude of Mr Shorten, a bit rude.
CHRIS BOWEN:
We have a robust debate in Australia and we all express ourselves in different ways and I'm sure nobody would take offence, if that's what Bill said. I haven't seen Bill's comments, but if that's what he said, I'm sure we have a robust debate.
JENNIFER BYRNE:
Well, it's not a debate so much; it's a bit of an insult isn't it? A bit over the top to say that someone who was complaining about it not being a very good website was 'intellectually lazy'? Maybe it actually isn't a very good website.
CHRIS BOWEN:
Well I think what we're seeing probably is some criticism. Bill, as I say, I haven't seen Bill's comments, but what we're seeing is some criticism from the opposition for one, who had 12 years to do something and they didn't do it and then they turn around and criticise what we're doing.
Look, on the website, I've said it's a guide, it's a help. Over time I'd like to see more information on it, I said that on the day I launched it, that it should be seen as a process where we get more information out to consumers. It's not designed to put downward pressure on prices, it is designed to give consumers more information and over time I'd like to see more information on it.
We have had close to 2 million hits since it's been up and running, which to me, shows that people are interested in the type of information it can provide. It doesn't mean that everybody that has been on it likes it, in fact when you've had 2 million people looking at anything I'd be astounded if everybody liked it.
JENNIFER BYRNE:
Do you actually think it's good? Do you think it's really good? Because I was one of the 2 million and I've got to say I was a bit surprised at how little it told me.
CHRIS BOWEN:
Well you see these are always difficult challenges because if you had; there are 25,000 items for sale in supermarkets in Australia and if you put a lot of detail in and said well we'll give you every item in the supermarket, obviously that's impossible.
That would just take an army of checkers et cetera. If you just outlined some of the goods and said these are some of the good we're going to have on the website...
JENNIFER BYRNE:
Like specials?
CHRIS BOWEN:
Well if you just had some goods, then you'd find the retailers saying 'well that's fine, we'll reduce the price of the goods we have on the website and we'll increase the price of others to make up for it'.
JENNIFER BYRNE:
But the thing is - I take what you're saying; all the reasons you can't have that - what you have got is a couple of dollars, two or three dollars in a basket of goods. It doesn't say what's in the basket of goods - two or three dollars is really not a big difference. You tell us Aldi is cheaper, which we kind of knew already, so I'm sort of wondering where you think the big appeal of the site is?
CHRIS BOWEN:
If you look at, say, my area - south western Sydney. A lot of people in that part of the world are doing it tough. If they went on, I'm sure that you can save about $20 on a basket of basic goods at Aldi. That's going to make a difference to them. And the research out of the ACCC's report showed that a lot of people don't...
JENNIFER BYRNE:
But you don't want to do an ad for Aldi do you?
CHRIS BOWEN:
No, no. I don't care who's cheaper. If they're cheaper, the website will show it.
JENNIFER BYRNE:
But it'll always be cheaper.
CHRIS BOWEN:
We all get into the habit of shopping at the same shopping centre Jennifer, because it's convenient, and that's fine, if that's the choice you choose to make. But this is about giving consumers a bit more information. I'd like to see more information on there over time, that'll take some discussions with supermarket chains et cetera.
Look, up until now, you've had the Choice survey, which comes out; I think, once a year on what grocery store is cheaper and is very general. Choice has come out, who have no barrow to push for me, but have said this is a helpful site, in their view. It does increase the information. They're the consumer peak group.
I don't think anybody's pretending, certainly I haven't pretended, that it's a magic bullet or that it will give consumers a lot more information, but it gives them a bit more information and I'd like to see it have more information over time.
But I think, if I could just reiterate those constraints, if you have this sort of website, it's not going to be - here's the price of a loaf of bread here, here, here and here, because you're going to have the waterbed effect of those prices coming down, but other prices coming up.
JENNIFER BYRNE:
What about the criticisms it's made today from senior Australians, they're talking about FuelWatch, but it's the same with GROCERYchoice isn't it? That the system - essentially the very people that need to save the money, maybe the older people, maybe the unemployed - are the people who are less likely to use the internet or mobiles.
CHRIS BOWEN:
Sure and that's why in FuelWatch, for example, we're very careful to ensure that there are other mechanisms to supply the information, there's a toll-free number, there'll be SMS alerts. Now I recognise that some pensioners don't have mobiles either, but a lot do. But there'll be a toll-free number where you can ring up and say 'I live in X suburb can you tell me the prices of the service stations in this area or can you tell me the prices on this road'.
So we do go out of our way to have other mechanisms, other than the internet. But the reality is that a lot of people use the internet, it's very powerful tool and we should be using that tool to give consumers more information.
JENNIFER BYRNE:
Sure. Hey Mr Bowen, when was the last time you went shopping in your supermarket?
CHRIS BOWEN:
Yesterday.
JENNIFER BYRNE:
Excellent, did you get a good basket? A cheap basket?
CHRIS BOWEN:
Well I do my best. It's funny, I was asked the other day by one of your colleagues on another ABC network when I do the shopping. I said my wife and I share it. She said 'what's the price of bread and milk?' I said '$4 for each of those'. And I copped a bit of criticism for that because some people said I said it was too high.
Well the reality is, I do pay $4 for a loaf and on milk, anything less than two litres would last about 17 seconds in my house if I'm lucky. So, I buy my milk in two-litre bottles and it does cost $4. So there you go.
JENNIFER BYRNE:
Alright, listen, I think you're completely sound, but I hope you do some more work on your grocery website.
CHRIS BOWEN:
Well look, absolutely.
JENNIFER BYRNE:
It could be a lot better you know?
CHRIS BOWEN:
Well we want to see more information in it over time, but can I say, consumers have more information today than they did this time last week.
JENNIFER BYRNE:
That's true.
CHRIS BOWEN:
And overtime we want to give them more information. But with the constraints we have on us, we'll give them as much as we can and we'll certainly work with other groups, as I said on the day I launched it, to put more information on it as we go.
JENNIFER BYRNE:
Thanks Chris Bowen.