SUBJECTS: Prime Minister Julia Gillard, Resource Super Profits Tax, election timing, religion, Cooper Review into superannuation
JAMES CARLETON:
Joining us now, we have the Minister for Financial Services, Chris Bowen, and the Manager of Opposition Business, Christopher Pyne. Gentlemen, good morning to you both.
CHRIS BOWEN:
Good morning, James. Good morning, Christopher.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
Good morning, James.
CARLETON:
Good to have you on, thanks. Let's start with you, Christopher, first, Christopher Pyne. Is Australia, in your view, any different at all under Prime Minister Julia Gillard than it was under Kevin Rudd?
PYNE:
Well, no it's not, James, and it's a good question. Obviously, the Government wants to trick the public into thinking by changing the jockey they've somehow changed the horse as well. But the truth is all they've done is given the Government a facelift. The Government is still exactly the same. The new Prime Minister is part of the gang of four, the Deputy Prime Minister for the last three years, Acting Prime Minister for 21 per cent of the time that Labor has been in power, and wears every single bad decision of this Government, whether it's pink batts, school hall rip-offs, the boats arriving, mining tax, the emissions trading scheme being junked, as much as the previous Prime Minister did.
CARLETON:
Chris, Chris Bowen, can I put the same question to you? Is Australia different under Prime Minister Gillard as it was under Prime Minister Rudd?
BOWEN:
Well, James, every Prime Minister puts their own stamp on the Government; that's why governments are named after the Prime Ministers: Howard, Rudd, Gillard. And Julia, being a very formidable political and policy operator, will be putting her stamp on the Government. She's already signalled a change of focus and she'll be putting her stamp on it without question. And when you change the Prime Minister, you change the Government, and you change the focus and the approach. There's no question about that, despite Christopher's spin.
CARLETON:
But Chris Bowen, still with you, you were at the critical Cabinet meeting. Do you, can you tell us whether we'll have a resolution to the mining tax debate any time soon?
BOWEN:
Well, we've signalled that's a priority for us to sort that through. I'm not going to go through yesterday's Cabinet discussion, you'll be shocked to learn. But we've signalled that's a priority. There's been intensive discussions between Wayne Swan and Martin Ferguson, in particular.
CARLETON:
And you would be keenly aware, Minister, wouldn't you, that unless this is resolved soon, it will crash into the buffer time at which you need to stop negotiations because you'll be going into caretaker mode.
BOWEN:
Well, that comes into the whole question of election timing, which is a separate issue. But look, from day one, the Prime Minister said she wanted this sorted out, that she wanted to get a fairer share of the value of Australia's mineral wealth for Australians, but she wanted to do so in a way which was consultative and which the mining industry was listened to, and that's what she's been doing together with Wayne Swan and Martin Ferguson over the recent period, and there'll be further updates when we're in a position to provide further updates.
CARLETON:
How long do you reckon the Government has before Minister, or the miners rather, start up with their campaign again?
BOWEN:
Well, look, I don't think you can put an artificial timeline on these things. I know there's some people out there speculating about the end of the week, etcetera, that's from some people in the mining industry. Others may have a different view. You've just got to do what you can with the information and the time you have available, and that is what the Government's doing. I don't think you can, you know, say, 'Well, we've got until this date, or anything that happens after this date is a failure; anything that happens before this date is a screaming success.' The Prime Minister has indicated that's a priority and we've been dealing with it as a priority.
CARLETON:
Is that how you see it, Christopher Pyne?
PYNE:
Well, obviously the Government is in something of a cleft stick, James, because on the one hand either they stick with their very bad mining tax and plunge a knife through the heart of our standard of living in this country in the mining industry or they back down on the mining tax and in so doing they wreck their Budget. Let's not forget they planned a surplus in three years' time, if you can believe it, of $1 billion. Now, if they cut the mining tax, if they back down, then essentially they will be wrecking the Budget. They'll need to have a mini Budget announced; they're either going to have cuts to the Budget or they're simply going to abandon their surplus. The bottom line is these people are amateurs and it's an amateur hour operation, and it's time to get people into the Government who actually know how to balance a Budget, pay back debt, reduce the deficit and get Australia back on track again.
CARLETON:
Christopher Pyne, the assessment is, it's widely considered that the leadership change was bad for the Opposition. What about the proposal that a mining tax compromise is in the offering? Would that equally be bad for the Opposition?
PYNE:
Well, you have to recognise of course, James, that the fact that there'll be a mining tax backdown indicates, of course, the decision the Government made, that Julia Gillard made in the first place was a bad decision.
CARLETON:
So it should be changed?
PYNE:
Well, this Government reels from one disaster after another. If it's not pink batts and the school halls rip-off program, and opening the borders to boat people and junking the emissions trading scheme, it's introducing a very bad tax and then backing down from the very bad tax. Now, I don't think the public would give the Government any credit for trying to introduce a very bad tax and then backing down from a very bad tax. The public would say, 'Why did you try and introduce it in the first place?' because they [inaudible] the people running the Government have no idea what they're doing.
Last Thursday, Chris Bowen was on this program saying that everybody was sticking with Kevin Rudd, they were behind Kevin Rudd. By the end of the day, Kevin Rudd was gone.
CARLETON:
Chris Bowen, your reaction?
BOWEN:
Putting aside Christopher's gratuitous comment at the end, we were talking about the mining tax and Christopher knows that he's not telling the truth there.
PYNE:
[inaudible]
BOWEN:
Hang on, you had your go, Christopher, and I listened to you in silence. Settle down.
Now, Christopher knows that he's not telling the truth. I thank him for reminding us that we are returning to surplus in three years' time, three years ahead of time. That is not related to the Resource Super Profits Tax. That is related to the Government's Budget rules of keeping spending growth under two per cent in real terms and it's related to the strength of the economy. And we will return the Budget to surplus in three years' time, three years ahead of time. The revenue from the Resource Super Profits Tax did not go to paying down the deficit or going into surplus. Christopher knows that and he's being disingenuous by speculating otherwise. The revenue from the Resource Super Profits Tax is earmarked for three things: for boosting superannuation, for a corporate tax cut and for an infrastructure fund, and to suggest that there'll need to be some sort of mini Budget or that the surplus will be in question if there are any changes to the Resource Super Profits Tax is simply not true.
CARLETON:
And Chris Bowen, can you guarantee that the increase to super will stay, because you would be personally devastated if it went?
BOWEN:
Well, our commitment to superannuation is very, very strong, unlike the Opposition. We pioneered the superannuation system in Australia, as a Labor Government, and we are the ones committed to superannuation and boosting it. There's no question about that. When we deal with the Resource Super Profits Tax, we'll obviously make announcements about any implications that those changes may or may not have, but our commitment to superannuation remains undiminished.
CARLETON:
I want to turn to the question of faith and religion, because it has re-emerged. Julia Gillard, she says she grew up in the Baptist Church but she now describes herself as agnostic. The Prime Minister says she will never pretend to be something she isn't.
JULIA GILLARD:
[grab] I am not going to pretend a faith I don't feel, and for people of faith I think the greatest compliment I could pay to them is to respect their genuinely held beliefs and not to engage in some pretence about mine. I've never thought it was the right thing for me to go through religious rituals for the sake of appearance.
CARLETON:
Christopher Pyne, you would consider that perhaps quite a deft political positioning, true to her secular views and yet entirely open to those of faith?
PYNE:
Look, I don't think that it's a deft political position. I think what it's designed to do is get her through an election. But everybody has to make their own choices in terms of faith and belief. I'm a committed Catholic, Tony Abbott is a committed Catholic, and that's our choice. Good luck to us. Julia Gillard, I understood she was an atheist but now she's apparently describing herself as an agnostic. But whether she's an atheist or an agnostic –
CARLETON:
She's certainly not a Christian socialist.
PYNE:
She's a non-believer and good luck to her. That's her personal choice. [inaudible] one of the good things about Australia is that happily sectarianism was left behind decades ago and we certainly don't want to breathe life back into that again. So I'll go on being a Catholic and Tony Abbott'll go on being a Catholic, and Julia Gillard can go on being an atheist and good luck to her and good luck to us.
CARLETON:
You'd have common ground, Chris Bowen, with Christopher Pyne on that score, wouldn't you?
BOWEN:
Well, with the exception of his comment about Julia's comments about religion being related to an election, which I completely and utterly reject. I think it's a good thing in Australia that we can, as politicians and people in public life, have a range of things informing our values. All of us in public life or in politics have a set of values. For some of us, that's inspired and informed by religion. For others of us, it's inspired and informed by more secular experiences. And both of those should be very much respected, and I think it would be very sad if Australia got to the point which, frankly, the United States has, where politicians have to pretend to be Christians even if they're not, quite clearly sometimes spectacularly are not, but have had to pretend to be Christians through their political career. I don't think we've been in that situation in Australia and nor should we be, and just as people's religious views should be respected, so should those that are more secular in their approach.
CARLETON:
We're speaking with the Minister for Financial Services, Chris Bowen; also the Manager of Opposition Business, Christopher Pyne. It's Polls Apart, ABC radio National Breakfast at 8.17.
Christopher Pyne, do you agree with your colleague Joe Hockey when he reckons the election will be called this weekend?
PYNE:
Look, I think the election will be called very soon. Labor want to have an election before the honeymoon for the new Prime Minister ends. Whether it's called this weekend or next weekend is probably immaterial. The reality is it'll be in August. It could be as early as 7 August if called this weekend or 14 August as each weekend passes. The bottom line is Labor is trying to trick the Australian people into believing there's been a change of Government because there's been a change of Prime Minister. There hasn't been. Julia Gillard was involved, as part of the gang of four, in every bad decision that this Government has made and I don't believe the Australian public will be fooled. It's one thing to change the face of the Government, but all the people who made the amateur hour decisions which have caused all the problems in Australia in the last three years are still there, still making those decisions, highlighted by the fact that apparently this Government had lost its way, according to Ms Gillard last week, but the Cabinet remains almost entirely intact this week. So all they really did was say, 'Kevin Rudd is going to lose the election. Let's change the face of the Government, do some public relations, give ourselves a makeover and that will fool the Australian public into re-electing us.' Now, that is going to be the key issue at the election: are the people fooled or do they want a Government that is not going to manage the economy badly, that's not going to try and introduce bad taxes, that will protect the borders and reduce debt?
CARLETON:
I'm going to take a wild guess, Chris Bowen, that you want to reframe that question before [inaudible]?
BOWEN:
Well, no, I'm happy to deal with the matter of an election. I notice the Liberal Party's been out there saying, 'Oh, the Labor Party might rush to an election to avoid scrutiny.' I mean, what a disingenuous approach. What greater scrutiny is there than an election on both sides? It might mean the Liberal Party actually has to come up with a policy, which I know is a novel idea, that they might actually have to come up with some sort of alternative approach. Health policy wouldn't be a bad place to start, which is so important to the Australian people. The Government's outlined its plans for restructuring Australia's health system, training more doctors and nurses. The Opposition has been deathly silent. If and when there's an election – it will be soon, in the next few months – then the Opposition will need to, as the alternative Government of Australia, they'll actually need to stump up some policies, and the [inaudible] one liners and personal abuse that Tony Abbott specialises in will need to be replaced with an alternative vision, and I think he'll be found lacking.
CARLETON:
And Chris Bowen, last word for you today. We know there's going to be a major superannuation industry report handed to the Government today. When are we going to see that?
BOWEN:
I'll be releasing it in the not too distant future, James. I won't be releasing it today, but I won't be sitting on it for weeks either. I'll be releasing it quite soon, and of course this is the third stage of our very significant reforms to super. The first stage was our reforms to financial advice that I announced on 26 April. The next stage came with our boost to the superannuation guarantee and other measures to boost the fairness of superannuation that we announced on 2 May. The third stage will be our reforms to the efficiency of the superannuation system to get fees lower, and when you put these three reforms together, we would have over the last few months completely changed the Australian superannuation system in a way that hasn't been seen since Paul Keating introduced superannuation in 1992, and that will be a change for the better. It will mean that Australians can live with a more comfortable retirement income and our national savings rate will be boosted, and that's something, frankly, that I'm very proud about, that this Government's been able to achieve. It's something the previous Government just simply never tackled.
CARLETON:
Christopher, you'll have the last word next week. Thank you both for being with us this morning.
BOWEN:
Nice talking to you, James.
PYNE:
Thank you very much.