SUBJECTS: Fake email scandal.
STANLEY:
Mr Bowen, good afternoon to you. Were you surprised by the turn of events today?
BOWEN:
Well this is an extraordinary situation. We had Mr Turnbull last week calling for the Prime Minister's resignation based on this email. We said at the time, no such email existed. It's now been established today that it's a fake and a forgery, so Mr Turnbull needs to apologise. Frankly John, the Leader of the Opposition is a very important role in the Australian political structure. The role of the Leader of the Opposition is to hold the Government to account and to be the alternative Prime Minister. Mr Turnbull doesn't have any credibility now. He's based his whole campaign on the fake email…the best thing for him would be - the honourable thing for himself – is to resign.
STANLEY:
At what time did you find out this email was a fake?
BOWEN:
Oh look I saw a statement by the Australian Federal Police during Question Time. I think that's what happened in terms of the announcement by the AFP and I think we all got it at the same time.
STANLEY:
The Prime Minister went to the Parliament today and accused Mr Turnbull of forging this document and yet there is an inquiry – the Auditor General's inquiry, the Federal Police are enquiring, isn't it normal practice when there's a police inquiry not to comment on what the police are investigating?
BOWEN:
I don't think, in fairness John, that that's what the Prime Minister did. The Prime Minister called on Mr Turnbull to cooperate with the inquiry, to make sure all the computers in his office are made available to the Federal police et cetera. I don't think it's fair to characterise the Prime Minister as having made that accusation. He said that the Leader of the Opposition should be cooperating and making everything available – and of course he should.
STANLEY:
But at the same time, isn't it normal practice not to comment on an inquiry like this while the police are investigating?
BOWEN:
Well we're not commenting on the details. You've referred to the details and I'm not going to comment on that. We won't be commenting on that. [Inaudible] the Federal Police should talk to - that is a matter for them. Simply, we have called on the Opposition to cooperate and that's a perfectly legitimate point to make.
STANLEY:
Do you believe, first of all, the journalist might have been set up by this email?
BOWEN:
Well clearly somebody has been set up somewhere. Someone has concocted this rather elaborate hoax and clearly the Government was the target here. As to who did it and their motives, I really can't comment. That's a matter for the enquiry to try and get to the bottom of.
STANLEY:
Do you accept Mr Turnbull's assurances in the Parliament and he's said nobody in the Opposition was involved in creating and concocting this email, and nobody in the Opposition gave it to the journalist?
BOWEN:
Look that is a matter for the inquiry John. I am not going to comment either way on that. The Federal Police, I am confident, will get to the bottom of it.
The key point is: that Mr Turnbull relied on this email. He didn't come out and say, 'Well we need to investigate this', he didn't come out and say 'The Prime Minister should cooperate with this inquiry'. He came out and called for the Prime Minister's resignation based on a forgery, based on a fake email. That is a very serious thing.
As I say the Leader of the Opposition is a very important role – it requires a measured approach and it's appropriate to ask legitimate questions. It's not appropriate to make very serious allegations against the Prime Minister. These are the most serious allegations that could be made against the Prime Minister, John. Misleading the House – it ? leads automatically to our resignation. If we do it, if you mislead the House, you automatically must resign. It's a very serious allegation against the Prime Minister and for a Leader of the Opposition to make such an allegation against the Prime Minister of Australia on the basis of a forgery is a very serious…
STANLEY:
…but plenty of leaders of the opposition have claimed that Prime Ministers have misled the Parliament and have called for their resignation.
BOWEN:
No not really John. Leaders of the Opposition make very serious complaints against the Prime Ministers all the time, that's true. But calling for a PM's resignation is a very serious thing – it should never be done lightly because it goes to the very integrity of the Prime Minister and Mr Turnbull did that, that based on what we now know is a forgery and he should have showed much more judgment – he should have not weighed into this in the way that he has and as a result – frankly John – his credibility lies in tatters.
STANLEY:
Hasn't this let Wayne Swan off the hook, to an extent, because he is the one who has questions to answer over his relationship with this car dealer John Grant?
BOWEN:
No, not at all. As I said in the Parliament today I've worked as closely with Wayne Swan as anybody else has. He is a very conscientious and a very decent man. If he received any representation from a Member of Parliament that one of their car dealers was having trouble, he would of dealt with it and that's exactly what he did in this case and on behalf of Member of Parliament on the other side. Liberals and Nationals raised it with him and he dealt with them all in the same way; and there is a series of emails which show that the Treasurer's office was involved with helping all sorts of car dealers none of whom had meet the PM or the Treasurer.
So to suggest that there was special treatment for Grant is just incorrect and the opposition now realises this but they've got themselves in too deep and they can't retreat.
STANLEY:
Mark Latham has written in the Financial Review today that Labor's state offices have established productive relationships with car dealers; he talks of a Minister in the Carr Government telling him one of his car dealer friends was appointed to a highly prized board in NSW. Essentially he is saying it's business as usual that business has a close relationship with the ALP and if you give donations at the grass roots level you'll have greater access than those that don't.
BOWEN:
That's just nonsense and frankly as sad as it is, Mr. Latham doesn't have much credibility these days on these issues. Look, the Government does have a close relationship with business, of course we do. We'd be negligent if we didn't. If businesses were having trouble keeping their people in work and we didn't respond to those concerns then we'd all be negligent. But we sit down with business, work through their issues and try to help.
STANLEY:
But business that tips-in money, I mean access is sold isn't it?
BOWEN:
John, I would deal with businesses every day. Business people I know are members of the Liberal Party, are strong supporters of the Liberal party and I don't let that affect my dealings with them and neither would the Treasurer.
STANLEY:
So in relation to Mr. Swan, are you happy to have the Auditor General probe this situation and if it's found that John Grant was given preferential treatment because he knew Mr. Swan; based on what you said earlier about Mr. Turnbull, he should resign, shouldn't he?
BOWEN:
John as I said, there are a series of emails which show that that's just not the case. There was very close attention given by the Treasurer's office to representations from car dealers, from one end of the country to the other. Now should Mr. Grant be disqualified because he happened to know the PM, should we have said to him, 'look sorry John we know you're in trouble here but you met the PM so we can't help you,'? Of course not.
STANLEY:
But wouldn't it have been easier to have said, 'the way of the world is: if you happen to know someone, you're going to get slightly better treatment', that's the way it works everywhere.
BOWEN:
In this case John, the Treasurer dealt with many concerns and the Treasurer's office dealt with many concerns on behalf of car dealers; and dealt with them all in the same way. They referred them to the Treasury and the Treasury was very active in putting those car dealers in touch with various arms of finance companies. They're saying, well look if you can't get any joy with this finance company why don't we put you in touch with this finance company et cetera. That was happening a lot, why? Because if the car dealers couldn't have got financing; they would have had to close their doors; and there would have been a lot of people out of work.
STANLEY:
But as they were making those approaches, how many of those car dealers' approaches, how many of them were having faxed updates sent to the Treasurers home?
BOWEN:
I understand the Treasurer was kept advised of progress across this issue…
STANLEY:
He was given progress on Mr. Grant, were there any other car dealers where faxed updates were sent to his home?
BOWEN:
The Treasurer was in Brisbane on that particular day, if he was in Canberra his office would have just come in to him and said, 'Treasurer this place that was raised with you by this Member of Parliament, here's what's happening'. So you don't send the fax, you don't send the email because he is in the office next door to you. I happen to know the Treasurer doesn't spend much time in Brisbane at his home…
STANLEY:
Isn't this just coincidence then, that the only one that was faxed to his home was related to Mr. Grant?
BOWEN:
Because he happened to be in Brisbane on that day. There were plenty of other where he had been in Canberra and he was just brought up to date in the normal fashion by a staff member wandering into his office and telling him this is what is happening; because he happened to get home that day, they sent a fax along with updates on hundreds of other things that day
STANLEY:
But no faxes were sent in relation to the other cases?
BOWEN:
Well I don't know. I don't work in the Treasurer's office. I don't know whether other faxes were sent in relation to those, but I do know he was kept advised of the progress in relation to other dealers. Some of them had been raised by Labor members, some had been raised by opposition Members of Parliament. I've discussed it with some opposition members of parliament before, and said to them to give me a ring if you're having hassles I'll see what I can do to help. That's what we do, it doesn't matter if somebody is Liberal or National; we try and help and that's what the Treasurer has done in this case.
STANLEY:
I appreciate that who knows what the next move into his will be. I thank you for your time.
BOWEN:
Pleasure John.