CHRISSIE SWAN:
Welcome to the show, Josh Frydenberg.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Good morning. How are you, Chrissie and Sam and Browny. Last time I think we joined – I joined you, you were playing guessing games and you all put me to shame.
CHRISSIE SWAN:
Probably. Look, that sounds like the sort of hijinks that we get up to. And we will get up to more of that, but first of all I want to talk about this quote. And, you know, as, you know, people in Melbourne, we’ve had a whole lot of – well, in Victoria – we’ve had a whole lot of different messages and directives and mandates and all that sort of stuff. But this is the first time we’ve heard something like this: “It is a fallacy for any person in Australia to think that we can actually eliminate this virus. We can’t. No country has done it. Based on the vaccines and the efficacy that we know today, based on the medical advice, you cannot eliminate the virus. We have to live with it.” When I heard you say that, this is the first time this messaging has been in our ears. What do you mean by it?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, this is about having an honest conversation with the Australian people that zero COVID forever is unrealistic. Now, they’re not my words; they’re actually the words of the Doherty Institute, who are the world‑leading medical experts in the field. So while we can suppress the number of cases and lockdowns have been an important element of that, once we get to the appropriate level of vaccination, which the Doherty Institute says is 70 to 80 per cent, we can start to reopen safely. The transmissibility of the virus reduces, the number of people who get seriously sick reduces. And we can get about our lives in the COVID‑safe way, just as the rest of the world is doing right now, and just as Australia, Chrissie, has also done so with respect to other viruses or other diseases. I mean, with influenza, 200,000 people in Australia get it each year and there are 600 deaths. But we’ve learned to live with it, and that’s why sticking to the plan that was set out at national cabinet, agreed by all the Premiers and the Ministers, is really important.
CHRISSIE SWAN:
There’s some confusion over the 70 to 80 per cent. Let’s say it’s 70 per cent and we can start opening up again. Is that a 70 per cent of eligible citizens or 70 per cent of the population? Because those figures are very different.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
It’s 70 per cent of the eligible population who are 16‑plus. And it’s not just 70 per cent in the individual jurisdiction, like in Victoria, but it’s also across the country as a whole. And I’d put it to you, if we don’t open up at 70 or 80 per cent, as indicated in the national plan, then what is that number? And when can businesses have hope about reopening? When can our kids go back to school?
CHRISSIE SWAN:
I agree.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
When can we actually attend the funerals or the weddings of loved ones? And when can we move more freely across our country? I mean, Australians have given up so much, and what I’m concerned about is the fact that COVID is one health outcome, but another health outcome is this shadow pandemic that is being talked about, which is the mental health and the anxiety and the pressure on young people, on older people, on small business owners. And at some point we just have to learn to live with the virus.
JONATHAN BROWN:
How come – the problem is, I guess, the anxiety out there in the community, Josh, is the – well, not the trust, but it seems as if it’s not united as a country with all the different states. Why can’t the national – so the Federal Government, which you are the Treasurer of – why can’t the national government just set the limits and say, “No, this is what we’re doing”? Because you hear rhetoric from different Premiers and they’re not convincing and open up at 70 per cent or 80 per cent. And that’s all us citizens can go on, state by state.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, Browny, under the constitution the states have had responsibility and authority for those public health orders. But National Cabinet has been a body that’s been set up to bring the Premiers, the Chief Ministers and the Prime Minister together. Now, they did agree based on the medical advice to this Doherty plan. And that plan set out the 70 to 80 per cent vaccination rates. Now, the really good news for your listeners is that those vaccination rates are now in sight – 215 jabs being delivered across the country each and every day each and every minute. And in one day we’re getting, you know, three MCG’s full of people, the equivalent of, getting the vaccination. And, so, people need to keep rolling up their arms. They’re holding up their end of the bargain. It’s now up to premiers and chief ministers to hold up theirs. And I can tell you as the Treasurer, I’m seeing the incredible impact it’s having on our economy. Now while we’ve dug very deep into our pockets and effectively borrowed from future generations to spend money on programs like the JobKeeper and the cash flow boost and our existing programs, we can’t keep that level of spending going indefinitely. And it’s really important that we have that honest conversation with the public, because when you do live with COVID there will be cases, there will be deaths, there will be serious illnesses. But our medical system has been set up to try to deal with that increased case load.
SAM PANG:
Mr Treasurer, it’s wonderful to hear those numbers about vaccination rates. But I’m sure you’d be aware, though, it’s not a race, is it, mate? But I wanted to ask you this.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
We’ve got to do it as quickly as possible, Sam.
CHRISSIE SWAN:
We’ve got to get out of the cave, apparently.
SAM PANG:
Hey, if you have to go, Josh, that’s fine. We don’t have to make this last any longer than it has to. Listen, can I ask a serious question about a general question?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Yeah, sure.
SAM PANG:
I grew up with the ideal that politicians were the best and the brightest. When did you realise that holding public office that you didn’t need to be the cream of the crop?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, I hopefully have brought my experience to bear in this job. And I think there are a lot of good people, well‑intentioned, on both sides of the political divide who are in politics. And I think you’d be amazed by some of the backgrounds of people in politics. You've got everyone from people who have run crocodile farms to being undertakers to being policemen, to being small business people, to being, you know, lawyers or accountants. People have had all different types of experiences in this place, so I do think they’re a pretty high calibre of people.
SAM PANG:
I’ll give you three words – Senator Pauline Hanson. The last one from me – you are currently Treasurer. Do you have aspirations to be Prime Minister?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, I want to be the best I can be, and right now I’ve got my hands full. I’ve got my hands full, Sam. But, you know, I’d rather see a Carlton premiership any time soon. That’s what I want.
SAM PANG:
Deflection.
JONATHAN BROWN:
Well, you might have Clarko coaching very soon, so.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Look, he has a lot to offer, doesn’t he, Browny?
JONATHAN BROWN:
Absolutely. And small business, obvious a pillar of our society.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Yes.
JONATHAN BROWN:
Small business owners, obviously they’ve been absolutely decimated in most small businesses. What have you done for them, Josh, the latest initiative?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, you’re right they’re doing it tough. And, Browny, you know, we can’t keep this lockdown going for one day longer than it has to, because those small businesses, unlike journalists or radio interviewers or even footballers or politicians or public servants, they don’t get paid when they don’t have customers coming through the door. So we’ve been providing direct economic support in the form of grants. But today what we’re doing is expanding a loan scheme which means that if you’re a small business or a medium‑size business, you can get loans of up to $5 million for up to 10 years with up to the first two years being repayment free. And the Commonwealth Government will guarantee 80 per cent of those loans, the bank will guarantee the other 20 per cent. And it builds on a scheme that we currently have in place and it’s been described by the Council of Small Business as being really good news for their members to reopen and to rebuild.
JONATHAN BROWN:
Fantastic.
CHRISSIE SWAN:
It sounds good.
JONATHAN BROWN:
Great initiative.
SAM PANG:
Thanks, Josh Frydenberg.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Thanks, guys.
JONATHAN BROWN:
Thanks, mate.