VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
As I mentioned, the mid year budget update was released yesterday by the federal Treasurer Josh Frydenberg, and he joins me now, the member for Kooyong. Josh Frydenberg, good morning.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Good morning to you, Virginia, and to your listeners.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
I understand you’ve been speaking to your federal colleague in Tasmania this morning about that unspeakable tragedy in Devonport.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Yes, I spoke to Gavin Pearce, and he obviously is grieving like the rest of his community. He said that people are rallying around the families. But everyone is still in shock. And I don’t know if there are sufficient words for that tragedy because every Australian’s heart has been broken.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
Treasurer, I want to get to the midyear economic forecast figures and the forecasts, of course, for the next 12 months in just a moment. But, first of all, just to a couple of really important issues from this week: can you explain to this audience how your commonwealth grants process isn’t corrupt?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, obviously it’s based on need and there’s a range of programs, but that analysis only looked at 11 out of 1,700 programs. It was highly selective, and it didn’t focus on the social services programs which make up the vast bulk of the spending in the grants program. So, for example, disability support, whether it’s Indigenous community support, whether it’s health, whether it’s aged care. And, of course, we do have the Auditor‑General who is able to provide scrutiny into those reports. And I won’t take a lecture from the Labor Party who have been criticised by the Auditor‑General with respect to their previous actions on those grants.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
Well, we’ll get to them when they’re in power. But you spent $86 million in nine Victorian Liberal electorates versus $14 million in nine Labor ones – six times the amount. So if you say there were social problems like disability services and aged care, can you provide us with the documents that show us six times fewer projects worth funding in those Labor electorates? Do you have that data?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, again, it’s based on applications, based on need, based on objective criteria.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
Are you saying there were no applications from those Labor seats?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, in terms of the specific details of those individual cases you’re raising, I don’t have them at hand. But what I can tell you is that one of the programs that was analysed and that they compared money going to Coalition seats versus non‑Coalition seats was a drought support program. Now, as you know, we’re in partnership with the Nationals. The Nationals hold a lot of those regional seats. They were objective criteria, like loss of rainfall and the impact of the drought on the local community. So of course the money went where there was need, and that was overwhelmingly in Coalition seats. So I think we’ve got to be careful about drawing conclusions from analysis that looked at one per cent of the grants programs.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
If that’s one per cent, if $86 million in nine – we’re only talking about nine Victorian Liberal electorates here in order for point of comparison to nine Labor ones – 86 million plays 14 million, then clearly what you must be suggesting this morning is that the problem is even bigger than that if we went on and looked at all of the seats.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, I’m not saying that. What I’m saying is actually –
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
That’s a logic you can draw from it.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
No, you’ve got to look at the breadth of all the different programs, including the social services programs which are the overwhelming nature. You’ve got to look at the application process. You’ve got to look at the objective criteria. And I think you’d be wrong –
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
But you’re not telling me this morning that you didn’t have applications from those Labor seats?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Again, I don’t know the specific programs. I don’t have –
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
Are you going to go back and look at them? Because this is a problem, and I’ve got to tell you, for the listeners they’re appalled by the division and the unfairness they see there. So surely you’re going to go back, your team is going to go back, and revisit that and see if some worthy projects in those Labor seats weren’t worth funding?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, Virginia, we did provide additional funding in this year’s budget for the Auditor‑General. They are scrupulous at looking at the – and rigorous in looking at the various grants programs. They are the overseer of the grants programs and they have looked at them in their entirety.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
Okay, well, let’s stay with that. I mean, we’ve had the sports rorts scandal from your government that was slammed by the National Audit Office. We’ve had the commuter car park rorts, again slammed by the National Audit Office. And now we’ve got what appear to be these Liberal seat bias grants. Is the real reason that you keep shutting down the introduction of your own federal corruption bill because your government would basically end up being its number one target?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, again, I think that’s a highly partisan statement from you.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
No, it’s not partisan. It goes to the facts.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
I’m very –
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
It goes to the facts that have been established.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
I’m very happy to go to the facts. We have a piece of legislation that has been released publicly for consultation which would be passed tomorrow, which is all about setting up an integrity commission with two key divisions –
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
Then why did you shut down the introduction of your bill?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, it didn’t have the support from the Labor Party because they wanted to play politics. The reality is this has powers equivalent to a royal commission. You have independent oversight. We’ve allocated more than a hundred million dollars to establish this integrity commission and it has two separate divisions –
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
Then introduce the bill.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, the Labor Party need to say that they would support it, and they haven’t yet said it.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
The Labor Party – I had Bill Shorten yesterday on the program on the record for the third time saying, “We want to see it. We support it.”
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, again –
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
What are you waiting for, Josh Frydenberg?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
They’ve had a long time to see it. But it focuses obviously on two separate divisions – a law enforcement division and a public sector division. Now, we have the Auditor‑General, and no‑one I think would question the nature of the Auditor‑General’s processes. We provided extra funding through this year’s budget. Now, you raise criticism of the Auditor‑General of various programs. I do point out –
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
The National Audit Office, yes.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
And I do point out that when Labor was last in office they were highly critical of community grants and infrastructure programs. They said the eligibility criteria were waived because they wanted to fund particular programs. And who was in charge of that? It was Anthony Albanese.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
Treasurer, you’ve said that the independents who are standing in various seats around the country are – and this is your quote – really a front for the Labor Party and the Greens. I’ve interviewed some of those independents, including Dr Monique Ryan in your seat of Kooyong, and she says publicly and on the record that she is a Liberal, a small “l” Liberal. Are you saying that she’s lying?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, again, I’m not going to get into the specifics of individuals. What I can tell you –
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
You said – I’m sorry I’m cutting – I have to jump in there because you are focusing on the individuals. You’ve said, “These independents are really a front for the Labor Party and the Greens.” It can’t get more individual than that. Are you saying she’s lying?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Virginia, what I’m saying to you is that if you look at the seats where the independents and the Greens are challenging, they’re in Coalition seats. They’re trying to tackle moderates in the Coalition.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
They’re just saying that you’re –
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Hang on. Hang on, hang on, Virginia. They’re not tackling Labor members in marginal seats like Corangamite and Dunkley. Now their platform mirrors the Labor Party and the Greens. Last election –
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
So you’re saying she’s lying.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Last election, Virginia, I was challenged by an independent. Now they spent on their own accounts released to the AEC, nearly half a million dollars, campaigned hard against me, got less than nine per cent of the vote and publicly went out and said they would support the Labor Party in the event of a hung parliament.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
You’re saying you don’t believe her. You’re saying you don’t believe her then.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
That’s their policy.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
You’re saying she’s lying.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
I’m saying very clearly the independent movement is a front for the Labor Party and the Greens. That’s who they’ll side with.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
That’s an astonishing assertion. I’ll get them back on to respond to that. But, look, on MYEFO, gross debt –
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
I’m sure you will. I’m sure you will.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
The gross debt is forecast to hit $1.2 trillion, almost 50 per cent of GDP, by 2024‑25. On the basis do you think your government will run a federal election campaign that’s cautious on spending or big on spending promises? Which way do you want to lean?
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
Well, Virginia, when we went into this crisis we’d actually balanced the budget for the first time in 11 years. And that was quite an achievement. It allowed us to have the ability to spend as required through this crisis. Now programs like JobKeeper saved 700,000 jobs, according to the Reserve Bank of Australia. The cash flow boost provided support for small businesses, probably many of their owners are listening to your program this morning. The $750 payments went to pensioners, carers, veterans and others on income support. The net result of that was that we avoided the experience of the 1980s and the 1990s recessions in Australia where unemployment took between eight and 10 years to recover to where it was. We’ve done that in about a year. Now the unemployment rate fell yesterday to 4.6 per cent.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
Just quickly if you can, Treasurer.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
When we came to government it was 5.7 per cent.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
Okay.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
366,000 new jobs were created where 60 per cent went to women –
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
We’re going to crash into the news, Treasurer.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
That was a sign of the strength of our recovery.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
Okay. Let me wish you a happy Christmas to you and your family. We’ll talk to you in the new year.
JOSH FRYDENBERG:
All the very best to you, too.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI:
Thanks very much, Treasurer.