Interview with Mike Carlton & Sandy Aloisi
Radio 2UE, Sydney
13 February 2009
SUBJECTS: Nation Building and Jobs Plan; Jobs; Rio Tinto/Chinalco
In Canberra today frantic negotiations on the Government's $42 billion economic stimulus package. The Senate knocked it back yesterday so the House of Representatives passed it again and now it will go back to the Senate this morning.
This is just crazy. The fly in the ointment is this independent Senator from South Australia, Nick Xenophon, who's holding out for billions of dollars to save the Murray-Darling Basin. Without his vote the package doesn't get through. I think the best thing you can say for him is he's got his wires crossed. This is not about rivers and water and a few hundred South Australian farmers. It's about trying to shield Australia from the worst of this global financial crisis. Nick Xenophon just doesn't seem to get that.
But far worse is the performance of Malcolm Turnbull and the Federal Opposition. Their behaviour has been disgraceful – chucking the toys out of the sandpit. The Government and its most senior economic advisers want this stimulus package as a matter or urgency. So does big business. The Business Council of Australia, the Chamber of Commerce and Industry, the Australian Retailers Association, they want it – not usually seen as Labor Party supporters, those people. The various social welfare groups want it too – the Australian Council of Social Services, and Catholic Social Services Australia. The trade unions want it as well. And I think ordinary Australians want it as well. There is a desperate need for it. But the Opposition wants to play cheap party politics on this. Or to put it in another way, if your house was burning down Malcolm Turnbull would refuse to lend his hose.
The Treasurer, Wayne Swan, is on the line. Good morning.
TREASURER:
Good morning, Mike. I think that's a pretty accurate description. Can I just say that I never anticipated that we'd see this level of economic irresponsibility and recklessness from the Liberal Party and the National Party. This isn't really about Senator Xenophon. It is all about Malcolm Turnbull, because the package should have passed with the support of the alternative government in the House of Representatives and the Senate. They made it very clear, and Malcolm Turnbull made it very clear last night, that he wasn't in the business of talking about the package. He wasn't in the business of negotiating about the package. He opposed the package in full, and I'm just gobsmacked by that because as you've accurately said, I've never seen a consensus in this country between big business, small business, trade unions, market economists, and that's all backed up by international bodies such as the IMF, and the only person who's really breaking that consensus is Malcolm Turnbull and the Liberal and National parties.
ALOISI:
Treasurer, good morning. After the package was voted down in the Senate last night, you apparently had talks with Senator Xenophon. Has a deal been reached?
TREASURER:
I'm continuing to talk to Senator Xenophon and the minor parties. I've had a discussion with them for some days now. There are some things we've been able to agree on. In fact, there are more things across the Greens and the other independents we've been able to agree on than we've disagreed on, but there are matters which are still being discussed. The Government has been having these discussions in good faith.
CARLTON:
Did you meet Xenophon last night, though?
ALOISI:
I've been talking to Senator Xenophon and I'll continue to talk to him today.
CARLTON:
Right, so no consensus or agreement has been reached yet with him?
TREASURER:
Well, I'm not going to speculate about that. I don't believe getting the outcome really can be done by having the discussions in the media.
ALOISI:
Can I ask you another way. Would it be likely that the package is passed by the Senate today?
TREASURER:
It's certainly not concluded.
CARLTON:
So, the talks go on, in other words?
TREASURER:
Yes, the talks go on.
CARLTON:
Okay. So, you haven't got a deal. If you don't get a deal from Senator Xenophon, then what happens?
TREASURER:
Well, I think we've got a real problem. We've got the Liberal and National parties in this economic wrecker mode. Their whole approach as summed up by Julie Bishop was just "sit and wait and see", and that's the last thing this country can afford. So, we will do everything we can to try and make this move. The country needs it. Economic times demand it and there is a real community consensus behind this package.
ALOISI:
Mr Swan, you compromised for something the Greens wanted. Would you consider bringing forward the money for the Murray-Darling Basin?
TREASURER:
We did. We gave Senator Xenophon a bring forward of something like $410 million.
ALOISI:
He says that's not enough.
TREASURER:
He does, yes. But anyway I'm not having these discussions in public. But we're trying to do everything we possibly can and we'll look at any reasonable proposition. We came to an agreement with the Greens and others. But the integrity of this package is important and we'll continue to do everything we possibly can to secure agreement.
CARLTON:
You can hardly go for a double dissolution election or anything like that because it would be just months down the track, wouldn't it?
TREASURER:
Well, I'm not even contemplating that. I'll continue to work on trying to get this package through the Senate. We put it back through the House last night. There was a very vigorous debate in the House late last night and all these matters were aired. But we've got to put it back up to the Senate this morning, and let's hope we can get some agreement.
ALOISI:
Treasurer, it's an unusual alliance between business and unions. The Government and the Australian people appear to want this package to go through so if it doesn't go through today, you say talks will continue but what about people who are waiting for handouts? What do you say to them?
TREASURER:
Well, that runs the risk now of the payment schedule that we've got. What we've got with the tax bonuses, for example, is a huge logistical exercise through the Tax Office, and the sooner we can get this parliamentary approval, the sooner we can meet with the deadlines that we put in the package for our payments – payments in March and payments in April, payments through Centrelink and payments through the Tax Office.
CARLTON:
All right. Can I ask you another question on another subject?
TREASURER:
Sure.
CARLTON:
The Chinese want to buy 18 per cent of Rio Tinto which would give them a huge, I guess, hold on some of resources in Australia. Are you going to allow that through?
TREASURER:
This is a decision I take under the Act in the national interest. Last year the Government published guidelines to flesh out our approach to such investments. We haven't seen the full detail of what is proposed yet. We will examine that closely. We do welcome foreign investment. It's particularly important in our resources sector, and our resources sector has a number of projects on the drawing board, a number in operation that are important for the future of the country. So, I'll take the decision in the national interest. But I can't speculate about what that may be until I go through it and seriously look at all of the proposals.
CARLTON:
Okay. Treasurer, thanks very much. It will be a big day.
TREASURER:
Good to talk to you.
