ADAM SHIRLEY:
Andrew Leigh is the Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury and federal Member for Fenner. I presumed when I caught up with him just before 8.30 am, that he would have a degree of knowledge of whether Treasury has actually been asked to model potential changes to capital gains and negative gearing arrangements. It seems clear, and I’m presuming you’ll be able to confirm this, that Treasury has been asked, at least by someone or multiple people in government, to look at options for negative gearing and capital gains tax change. Yes or no?
ANDREW LEIGH:
Adam, I’m not across everything the Treasury is looking at, they will be looking at tax changes from time to time. Our housing policy is absolutely clear and doesn’t include that change.
SHIRLEY:
Yeah, but you are the Assistant Minister to the Treasury and it seems obvious. In fact, it’s been reported by Labor insiders this is exactly what Treasury has been asked. Have they been at least asked to see what permutation options are available?
LEIGH:
Adam, it’s a big department that routinely conducts work on a range of policy issues, as you’d expect.
SHIRLEY:
You know, this is one of the biggest political issues potentially one way or the other though, surely someone’s told you or surely you’ve asked.
LEIGH:
Well we’ve been very clear with our housing agenda, Adam, and our focus is around getting more housing supply out there. Right now we have measures stuck in the Senate being blocked by a coalition of the Liberals and the Greens. We want to build, they want to block. That’s our housing agenda. And there’s also much more that we’ve got on and done. Collaborating with the states in order to get more housing rolling out for more Australians – targeting 1.2 million homes over 5 years. That’s an ambitious policy because we understand the importance of housing to so many Australians.
SHIRLEY:
So what options should there be, or consideration should there be to at least think whether negative gearing and capital gains under the current arrangements should be changed?
LEIGH:
Adam, I admire your persistence on this, but our housing policy is absolutely clear. Then it doesn’t include that change.
SHIRLEY:
No, not at the moment. I understand right now it doesn’t include that change, but it doesn’t until it does. I guess voters would be keen to hear if you could be straight about whether there’s any consideration at all, at any level, of such a change.
LEIGH:
I’m being very straight about our housing agenda which we’re focused on delivering. The Help to Buy program is a shared equity scheme. The Greens went to the last election promising a shared equity scheme and now they’re teaming up with the Liberals to block it in the Senate. That sort of intransigence means that young Australians won’t have a foothold in the housing market that they would get if Help to Buy came into effect. The Build to Rent scheme aims to put in place a system of housing ownership, a structure that’s worked very well in other places. Again, just trying to push on that supply curve. We do understand the importance of getting more housing supply into the market. I’m very happy to talk about the policies we have and I’ve been very clear with you Adam, that a big department like Treasury will routinely look at a range of issues.
SHIRLEY:
Ok, you call it intransigence as far as not getting these measures through the Senate. Could it be in fact, that Labor senators and members such as yourself aren’t willing to give enough or compromise enough in the interest of improving the situation for first home buyers or those who are currently struggling to own a home?
LEIGH:
Look I’m really glad you’ve asked that question Adam. A range of crossbench senators have moved amendments to the Help to Buy legislation. The Greens have moved nothing, they have proposed no constructive amendments.
SHIRLEY:
I was going to say they have moved things. They are things that you don’t believe are constructive though.
LEIGH:
They haven’t moved amendments to our Help to Buy legislation in the Senate. Unlike a range of other senators, they are in the business of blocking. We’re in the business of building. The Greens seem to want to run this as a political campaign, rather than to make a difference for the Australians who need more houses out there. If you look at the number of homes per person in the OECD, Australia has fallen behind the average. We do need to build more homes; we’re looking at things like modular prefabrication in order to make it cheaper to build homes. We recognise how critical this is for intergenerational fairness and for reducing inequality in Australia.
SHIRLEY:
Dr Andrew Leigh is our guest; Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury and federal Member for Fenner. Just wondering whether Dr Leigh, this is an issue which can’t be spoken about or touched publicly because you’re concerned about the electoral backlash you might get.
LEIGH:
Adam called me old‑fashioned, I’m happy to be here to talk about the policies we have. It’s not as though we’re lacking ambitious policies in the housing space. Some of those policies we’ve been able to get in place and they’re already making a difference. Others are being blocked by intransigent Liberals and Greens in the Senate. Our housing agenda, first under Julie Collins and now under Clare O’Neil, has been a focus on supply. That’s where all the experts tell us we need to go. I found it pretty extraordinary when I was on Q+A earlier this year to hear the Greens’ housing spokesperson effectively suggesting that supply doesn’t matter. That’s not what any serious economic analyst would tell you. We need to be building more homes here in Canberra and around the nation.
SHIRLEY:
Well, you might not be willing to talk about policies that the government is considering. Josh Burns, a Labor MP certainly is able to say and has said on the record, well this should at least be worth discussing, considering as part of a broader response to the housing crisis. If someone like he is willing to express or an open mind to it, why not you and others?
LEIGH:
I don’t doubt that people have a range of views on this issue. I’m not arguing about that. I’m simply saying that we have a housing policy, and this isn’t it.
SHIRLEY:
Dr Andrew Leigh is the Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury and federal Member for Fenner.