Leon Delaney:
Now the federal Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities, Treasury and Employment and our local member here in the seat of Fenner, Dr Andrew Leigh. Good afternoon
Andrew Leigh:
Good afternoon, Leon. Great to be with you
Delaney:
Well, thanks for joining us. There’s a lot of things going on, but let’s start with your opinion piece today about strengthening charities, strengthening democracy and strengthening the community. You make particular reference to the Stepping Stone café right here in your own electorate. Why is that?
Leigh:
Stepping Stone just won the Australian Local Hero Awards, beating out all of the contestants from other states and territories. So, I’m pretty proud of what they do. They’ve got a café in Strathnairn and Dickson, employing people who would otherwise be struggling to find work. They’ve helped over 60 migrant and refugee women to get into employment. And I was spotlighting them, Leon, not only because I’d like to see more people pop in and pick up a coffee, but also because what Vanessa and Hannah have done is really a reminder of the strength of charities throughout the community. Charities are out there improving the environment, helping in kids sport, strengthening the arts and assisting the most vulnerable. And we as a government have not only ended the Coalition’s nine‑year war on charities but also sought to rebuild and strengthen the relationship between the government and the charitable sector.
Delaney:
Okay, so you’ve made some changes in order to achieve that, including some new appointments to the advisory board that supports the Charities Commissioner?
Leigh:
Yes, that’s right. We have an advisory board now that has CALD and First Nations representatives, has more women on it than it did under the Coalition, and also has representation from all the states and territories. Part of the problem for charities is they find themselves having to deal with this duplicate reporting burden. So, getting the states and territories as part of the charities commission really allows more seamless regulation, it means charities spend less time doing paperwork, and more time helping people.
Delaney:
And, of course, doing paperwork costs time and money. So, if you cut back on the paperwork, that means more of the money can be directed to the charitable purposes, can’t it?
Leigh:
Yes, that’s right. So, my colleague Catryna Bilyk did a report on this a couple of years back where she estimated that charities were spending over a million dollars a month complying with unnecessary duplicate regulations, just in the area of charitable fundraising. So, we’ve got to simplify this stuff, make it easier for charities and make clear that in the Albanese government, charities have a government that is firmly on their side; one who wants to work with them to build a kinder, compassionate and more connected community.
Delaney:
Alright then, there’s a lot going on, as I said. We’ve seen the latest unemployment figures today. Unemployment has slipped upwards slightly. It’s now 4.1 per cent, up by just 0.1. Interestingly, though, the participation rate has grown. More people are looking for work, and that has contributed to that outcome. Along with that, though, I’ve seen commentary suggesting that despite the interest rate cut this week, despite the continuing low unemployment, living standards are still below what they were before the pandemic and won’t return to the levels of immediately before the pandemic until the end of the decade. We’re all worse off than we were just over 5 years ago. Why is that?
Leigh:
Well, Leon, I think Australia’s achieved something pretty remarkable in managing to get inflation under control without spiking unemployment. We’ve frankly never done that before in our history. Every other time we’ve dealt with inflation, it’s involved a lot of people losing their jobs. This time that didn’t happen. That means the benefits in employment have flowed to more people, and you pointed out the participation rate, which is extraordinarily today a record of 67.3 per cent. That’s almost 5 percentage points higher than it is in the United States, a country with which we frequently compare ourselves. So, Australians, I think, can be enormously proud of the way in which we’ve now got inflation down in the bottom half of the Reserve Bank’s target band while maintaining essentially full employment.
Delaney:
Yet at the same time, the other figure we saw this week was wages growth, which continues to be anemic and only barely above inflation. And in fact, in real terms, we’re still worse off than we were 5 years ago.
Leigh:
Well, wages stagnated under the Liberals. Wages were going backwards at the last election and we’ve now had real wages growing for 5 consecutive quarters under the Albanese government. That’s not an accident. It’s part of us backing minimum wage increases, backing increases for early childhood workers and aged care workers with money in the Budget there, and ensuring that we’ve got policies that allow workers to make reasonable wage claims. We understand the value of ensuring that people earn more and keep more of what they earn. Under Peter Dutton, people will be working longer for less.
Delaney:
I keep seeing this commentary that if people get big pay rises, it’s going to be inflationary. But the reality is people are not getting big pay rises, are they? So, where has the inflation come from that we’ve only just recently started to see ease?
Leigh:
Well, it’s been a global inflation challenge, sparked in part by the war in Ukraine and what’s going on in the global economy with supply chains. That’s why you’ve seen prices spike right around the world. And as I said, Leon, in many other places they have had to go through a recession in order to get prices back down. What we’ve done in Australia is to have full employment – to maintain the growth in the economy and the growth in real wages – while ensuring that we get inflation back under control. It’s a unique experience in Australian history, and it does mark us as very different from other countries that have in many cases gone into recession as they’ve sought to battle inflation.
Delaney:
Okay, well, you’ve brought up economic growth, but once again, it’s on life support. It’s anemic at best. It’s very much flatlining. And if you take out population growth, we’ve been in a per capita recession now for a couple of years. You know, it’s not terribly healthy, is it?
Leigh:
Well, we’ve recorded the lowest average unemployment rate for any government in 50 years. That employment story is a remarkable one. We’ve now got real wages growing again, living standards rising again, inflation almost a third of what it was when the Liberals left office and the creation of 1.1 million jobs. Economically, this is a remarkable story for Australia. And because every election is a choice, I need to point out, Leon, that Peter Dutton has opposed every single cost‑of‑living measure, and if he’d had his way, Australians would be over $7,000 a year worse off based on how he’d approach wages, tax cuts and the energy bill relief.
Delaney:
Okay, but nevertheless, that per capita recession means literally we’re all worse off than we were a few years ago on yet another measure. Now, what else was there? There was something, oh, productivity. Yes. We still have, again, almost no productivity growth. Why is that proving to be such a difficult challenge?
Leigh:
Well, productivity has been a challenge for over a decade now and that’s one of the reasons we prioritise competition reform so strongly. We got through the biggest changes in merger laws in 50 years. We’ve increased the penalties for anti‑competitive conduct and banned unfair contract terms. We’ve now agreed with the states and territories a competition reform agenda which it’s estimated, if it’s fully delivered, will put $5,000 a year into the pockets of the typical Australian households. So, getting competition reform going again is a key part of our productivity agenda, Leon. A more competitive and dynamic economy is one that is able to support long‑run increases in household living standards. Competition is really fundamental to our government.
Delaney:
Alright. Contrary to Craig Emerson’s famous performance many years ago, Whyalla did indeed wipe out this week. What went wrong?
Leigh:
Well, we’ve seen challenges in the financing of the Whyalla Steelworks, and our announcement is about securing the future of the steelworks and supporting local jobs. We’ve got to move towards green iron and green steel production in South Australia, and that’s what this announcement is doing. So, the Prime Minister was there, along with Premier Malinauskas, meeting with workers in order to save the steelworks and back local jobs.
Delaney:
Yeah. Okay, so you’ve leapt ahead of me a little bit there. Why was it in so much trouble in the first place? That’s the question..
Leigh:
Well, you know, have to put those questions to the owners who’ve run up considerable debts there. We’re not stepping in to pay their debts, we’re stepping in to make sure that the workers keep their jobs and that Australia remains a steel producer.
Delaney:
Because obviously, I’ve already seen commentary suggesting that the reason that the present owner wasn’t able to make it a going concern was because of the federal government’s insistence on pursuing renewable forms of energy. There’s been plenty of people getting online on social media, and I’m sure one or 2 people from certain parts of the political spectrum who have suggested that is the underlying cause as to why it wasn’t viable.
Leigh:
No, look, the world is moving towards tackling climate change, net zero is a reality in most countries around the world, and so we need to be shifting towards green steel. That’s the future. We’re committed to net zero, and we’re also committed to making sure that we look after local jobs. And as Australia moves into that space of being a renewable energy superpower, there’s plenty of opportunities for growing employment while we decrease carbon emissions.
Delaney:
Yeah. The announcement that you referred to that was made today is a $2.4 billion package to ensure the future of the Whyalla Steelworks. And as you say, the ambition there is to save jobs and make sure that the steelworks will be able to continue into the future. But that’s on the proviso of finding a new owner, isn’t it? Who’s likely to want to step and take over the ownership and the operation of that steelworks?
Leigh:
Well, a lot of things are still playing themselves out and Mr Gupta will be making announcements of his own in the coming days, I’m sure. But this really is about protecting the interests of South Australian workers and protecting the interests of Australian manufacturing.
Delaney:
Okay. Last, and I’m sure you’re really looking forward to this, United States President Donald J. Trump has launched an extraordinary vitriolic tirade on social media, denigrating the President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelenskyy. I have been interested to see that not only the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister but also the Leader of the Opposition have come out and flatly said Donald Trump is wrong. And in particular, Peter Dutton’s comments were quite strong on that front. Australia does stand with Ukraine, but it does leave us in a very awkward position, doesn’t it, when the United States is our most significant strategic ally?
Leigh:
Well, we’ve been unwavering in our support for Ukraine. Volodymyr Zelenskyy addressed the Australian Parliament and that support for Ukraine has been bipartisan. Russia’s war is illegal, it is immoral, and it was started by Russia. Australia has provided equipment and training for Ukrainian forces. So, we’ve been a strong supporter of Ukraine through this process. I’m sure you won’t be surprised, Leon, that I’m not going to engage in a running commentary in everything that the President of the United States does. There’s plenty of issues that we’re focused on right here with an election in the offing.
Delaney:
I’ve heard that line before. I think that’s a well‑prepared, well‑rehearsed line. I’m not going to provide a running commentary on everything that the President of the United States says. The actual question, though, was this leaves Australia in an awkward position, doesn’t it?
Leigh:
Well, we’re strongly supportive of Ukraine. We’re strongly supportive of a peace settlement that has Ukraine at the table. That has been Australia’s long‑standing position. We believe Russia’s war is illegal, and Russia should get out of Ukraine immediately.
Delaney:
Somebody’s trying to ring you. Thanks very much for chatting to me.
Leigh:
It’s my 18‑year‑old. It’s his birthday today. He’s just moved up to Queensland and we’re looking forward to connecting.
Delaney:
Sensational. I’d better let you go then.
Leigh:
Lovely. Great to chat, Leon. Take care.
Delaney:
Thanks very much. Dr Andrew Leigh, the Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities, Treasury and Employment and of course, our local Member here in the federal seat of Fenner.