LEON DELANEY:
The federal government is encouraging businesses that supply stock to major supermarkets to submit feedback to the 2024 annual Food and Grocery Code Independent Reviewer Survey. To tell us what’s going on, Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury and Employment, and of course, our local member here in the seat of Fenner, Dr Andrew Leigh. Good afternoon.
ANDREW LEIGH:
Good afternoon, Leon. Great to be with you.
DELANEY:
Well, thanks for joining us today. So, what’s going on with this independent survey?
LEIGH:
The Food and Grocery Code of Conduct governs the relationship between the big supermarkets and their suppliers. We’ve known that big supermarkets can squeeze their consumers, but also that suppliers can be put on the hook. When there’s only a couple of supermarkets and a lot of suppliers, then there’s a significant power imbalance. So, Labor has announced that the Food and Grocery Code of Conduct will be made mandatory, with significant penalties for breaching it. As part of that, we’re now reaching out to suppliers and saying, give us your feedback on how your relationship has been with the supermarkets in order to feed into the process.
DELANEY:
This question about suppliers being squeezed by the big supermarkets was one of the things that emerged from the Emerson inquiry, wasn’t it?
LEIGH:
That’s right. So, we asked Craig Emerson, the former competition minister, to have a careful look as to whether the voluntary code of conduct, the way it was set up by the Liberals, was good enough. He came back to us and said, no, voluntary isn’t good enough, it needs to be mandatory. So, we’re getting on with the job. The new code will have multimillion dollar penalties for the serious breaches, and it’ll also make sure the competition watchdog has powers to issue infringement notices. So, that’ll take effect from 1 April next year. What we’re doing alongside that is encouraging businesses to share their views with the independent code reviewer.
DELANEY:
It has been reported previously that some suppliers have been reluctant to speak up in the past for fear of reprisals. Is there any risk that businesses that submit to this particular survey might become targets for some sort of backlash?
LEIGH:
Not at all. The survey is fully anonymous and people will be able to raise complaints without any concerns about reprisals. And in terms of the code itself, we’ve listened to that feedback from farmers and we’ve now ensured that there is an anonymous complaints process that will work as part of that code, because no code is effective if the people who are being hurt are too scared to speak up.
DELANEY:
Now, of course, I know that the authorities are still looking into the question about supermarkets and so called fake discounts, but I’ve heard one of the arguments put forward by the supermarkets is that they’ve been pushed around by suppliers and the increase in costs of the goods that they’ve had to purchase, they’ve attempted to shift the blame. Is there some truth to that? Because obviously we’ve all experienced increasing prices. The cost‑of‑living crisis seems to be something that’s impacting across the board, isn’t it?
LEIGH:
Well, I need to be fairly careful about this because it’s a dispute that’s playing out in the courts at the moment, and the last thing I’d want to do is imperil that trial. But as I understand it, the claims that are being made have to do with what labelling was put on the shelf by the supermarkets. So, I guess it’ll be up to the supermarkets to explain whether or not the labelling that they put out was consistent with the consumer law.
DELANEY:
Okay. And we’ll have to wait and see what the court ultimately decides there this week. Also, we’ve heard from your colleague, the Assistant Treasurer Stephen Jones, that the government is pushing ahead with its plans to improve protections from scams, including funding for the creation of a single pathway for those who have been victims to seek some sort of compensation. How will that work?
LEIGH:
We’re going to make Australia the hardest target for scammers, making life better for consumers and worse for scammers. We know there are plenty of Australians who fall victim to scams every year. There’s about 11,000 scam related complaints made to the Australian Financial Complaints Authority, but people often aren’t sure who to go to. So, if there’s a scam on social media and you transfer money out of your bank, do you go to the bank or the social media platform or someone else? The single pathway, funded by almost $15 million in new money, will ensure that people have a one‑stop‑shop to go to if they do fall victim to these sorts of scams.
DELANEY:
Okay, so it’s one thing to have somewhere to go, somebody to call and say, look, I’ve got a problem here, but do we need to also increase the responsibilities of financial institutions such as banks? Because the regulation here in Australia is considerably less rigorous than it is in some other jurisdictions, for example, in the UK, where banks have no choice but to refund the victims of scams.
LEIGH:
The UK is unique in that regard. It’s the only jurisdiction that’s requiring that payback and it’s only just come into effect. We and the rest of the world are watching to see how that pans out. The concern that has been raised by some people is that you don’t want to let off other players, such as a social media platform that carried a misleading advertisement that sucked someone in. You don’t want to let them off the hook. So, we’re making sure that the banks are doing the right thing, but also ensuring that we’ve got a sender ID register. And so if there’s a name that’s appearing in the place of the mobile phone number that’s coming in, that that can can’t be somehow used in order to dupe people. We were doing everything we can. And Stephen Jones has been doing a lot of work in this area to make Australia a harder target for scammers, so the scammers go somewhere else.
DELANEY:
Yeah, you’re right about the social media platforms. If you have a problem with one of the big social media platforms, you don’t really have anybody you can pick up the phone and call. With the banks, at least they have a phone number you can ring and mechanisms in place to deal with people’s inquiries. But if you have a problem with Facebook, you might as well just give.
LEIGH:
Yeah, I mean, the social media platforms are very poor in terms of their dispute resolution mechanisms. Stephen Jones argues that redress from them is close to impossible. So, that’s why we’re giving this new resources to the Australian Financial Complaints Authority, allowing them to have a single pathway and also putting more pressure on the social media platforms to do the right thing. I mean, let’s face it, they’re making billions of dollars out of their operations. The very least they can do is to ensure that they’re not funnelling Australians’ hard‑earned money into the pockets of scammers.
DELANEY:
Indeed, the big tech platforms do seem to be making plenty of hay while the sun is shining, but they’re doing so without any kind of sense of social responsibility. Before we run out of time, there’s a couple of other things. We’ve just seen the King’s visit over the last few days, which overall went remarkably well. We haven’t turned on fantastically spectacular weather for the King and the Queen, which was good to see. I’m assuming that you had the opportunity to shake hands and say hello.
LEIGH:
I was involved in something else. Just next to me was Danny and Leila Abdallah, who lost 3 children to a driver who was under the influence and then extraordinarily set up a charity called ‘I4Give’ calling on people to be able to give back. So, myself and other Labor colleagues saw our only job has been to make sure that Danny and Leila had a chance to meet the King and to talk about the work their charity does. So, I didn’t get to shake his hand and that was all perfectly fine.
DELANEY:
Okay, content to sit back in the background, unlike a certain Senator who made a hell of a song and dance at the official reception at the Parliament House. A lot of people are asking if Lidia Thorpe can be removed from the senate because she appears to have broken her oath, which she now says she didn’t really properly swear in the first place.
LEIGH:
Well, I think that’ll be for others to judge. It’s for Senator Thorpe to account for her actions. It did seem somewhat strange to me that somebody who had argued against a voice for First Nations people was so keen on shouting in the Great Hall. But she can account for that to her voters.
DELANEY:
And finally, of course, I presume you’re pleased with the outcome of the ACT election, with Labor appearing now set to be returned with a reduced representation for the Greens, but we’re still not sure exactly how many seats they’re going to have in the new assembly. But the success of the independents, do you think that has a message for federal politics as we head into the election early next year bearing in mind that we’ve seen in Pittwater in NSW, another independent also be successful at the by‑election there, what do you think of this increased support for independents?
LEIGH:
Well, the Teal movement is real and it’s clearly not going away. And I think in this instance, as the Greens became more extreme and were focusing a bit more on foreign policy than local issues, then they made themselves pretty unattractive to many of their voters. And those voters naturally turned to independent voices. It’s pretty remarkable that Andrew Barr is able to again lead the Labor party to re‑election. This is a renewed government. It’s terrific to see people like Caitlin Tough and Taimus Werner‑Gibbings going into the Assembly. People who’ll be fresh voices for their communities.
DELANEY:
Any words of sympathy for Mick Gentleman?
LEIGH:
Oh, look, you certainly feel for everyone who misses out, particularly Mick, who’s been a stalwart of the Labor party, somebody who has worked so hard for so long for the values that we care about. I don’t think it’s completely over. I understand the counting there is still on the knife edge, but regardless of which way it goes, Mick has had an extraordinary career, a great contributor to Canberra.
DELANEY:
Andrew, thanks very much for your time today.
LEIGH:
Thanks so much, Leon.