ROSS SOLLY:
On the text line, ‘Ross’ says Sue ‘The only things dividing our country are Peter Dutton and the Union Jack still being on the flag of our multicultural country. I came to live in Australia from the UK in the 1970s and cannot believe we have not yet updated our outdated flag.’ Andrew Leigh is the federal Member for Fenner and joins us on the program this morning. Andrew Leigh, good morning to you.
ANDREW LEIGH:
Good morning, Ross, great to be with you.
SOLLY:
And good to be with you as well. In a moment we’ll talk about the CHOICE quarterly report which has just come out, which will give our listeners an insight into where they might get the best supermarket shopping in the lead up to Christmas. But Andrew Leigh, on this comment that Peter Dutton made last night, which people are talking about this morning, he says that when Anthony Albanese stands up at a news conference and he has the Australian flag and the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander flag behind him, that it is dividing the country and that he would never do that and he will only ever stand in front of the Australian flag. What are your thoughts on this?
LEIGH:
There’s days Ross when Peter Dutton reminds me of the last guy in the pub looking around for someone to fight. He’s always up for a battle. He’s never up for actually bringing the country together. We ought to be celebrating the fact that we have this privilege as non‑Indigenous Australians of sharing a country with a people whose continuous link to the land goes back more than 60,000 years. We’re incredibly lucky to have that culture. Extraordinary Australians like Ash Barty, Adam Goodes, Noel Pearson, these are remarkable Australians. And to celebrate Indigenous culture, it’s really so much of what Australia is about.
SOLLY:
But is he onto something, though, Andrew? Ok, but is he on to something? I mean, if you look at the way the Voice debate unfolded, if you look at the discussion that even has been coming on our text line this morning, people do have quite strong opposing views on this.
LEIGH:
I think to celebrate Indigenous culture is to celebrate part of what it is to be Australian. I love that Noel Pearson line that Australia’s identity is made up of 3 rivers, the Indigenous culture, our British history and the multicultural Australia that has come through successive waves of migrants. And so this is really celebrating a part of Australia recognising how remarkably lucky we are to have First Nations people showing us those ties to the land. We see that in Canberra. I was at a citizenship ceremony yesterday where we had multicultural Australians from all corners of the earth becoming citizens. And then it was kicked off with Duncan Smith and his Wiradjuri Echoes reminding everyone of Indigenous culture. That’s what it is to be Australian. It’s just such a shame Peter Dutton doesn’t get that.
SOLLY:
I wonder if this, though, might prompt a wider discussion, Andrew Leigh, on our flag generally. A few people saying this morning on our text line, look, maybe now is the time to talk about scrapping the flag we’ve got at the moment and bringing in a flag that more represents Australia as a nation. Get rid of the Union Jack in the corner, get rid of all of that sort of stuff and start again.
LEIGH:
Look, the only person who’s having discussions about the flag right now is Peter Dutton. And frankly, he’s doing it for the same reason he does most of his politics, to divide Australians rather than to bring us together. The hallmark of a leader is an ability to transcend partisan boundaries, to recognise a deeper sense of what it means to be Australian. And what Peter Dutton wants to do is to pit one group of Australians against another. It’s been the way in which he has played politics throughout his career.
SOLLY:
On another issue before, we talk about the CHOICE quarterly report. And we know now that the Australian Federal Police has set up this task force to look at antisemitism around Australia. As you would know, Andrew Leigh, there’s been a lot of criticism in some sections of the media from Jewish leaders and even from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that our Prime Minister, your leader, has been a bit slow in his response to the bombing of the synagogue in Melbourne and that he hasn’t done enough to stamp out antisemitism in Australia. Do you think that criticism is warranted? Has he been a leader in this area?
LEIGH:
I think our government’s done more to combat antisemitism than any previous Australian Government. You think back to the landmark ban on the Nazi salute and hate symbols that came into effect in January, the appointment of Jillian Segal as Australia’s first special envoy to combat antisemitism. Legislation that criminalised doxing passed through the parliament over the objections of the Coalition. The first ever national student ombudsman. The $25 million that was funded to protect Jewish sites last year and now the $32 million that’s been given to the Executive Council for Australian Jewry just in the past few days.
SOLLY:
Yeah, but you know, we now have a situation where internationally we’re seeing, this is the Simon Wiesenthal Centre coming out of the United States warning all Jews to reconsider non‑essential travel to Australia. I mean, how have we got to a situation, Andrew Leigh, where people overseas are now warning Jews not to come to Australia?
LEIGH:
Antisemitism is on the rise in Australia as it is around the world. We’ve also seen a rise in Islamophobia. Both are reprehensible and both are condemned by our government. The reason we have appointed the Islamophobia envoy as well is to deal with the issues that many in the Muslim community are facing.
SOLLY:
But firebombing the synagogue is taking that to another level, isn’t it? I know there’s Islamophobia out there, we’re all aware of that. But this is going to a whole new level, isn’t it?
LEIGH:
It was a horrendous attack, as was the attack on Josh Burns’ electorate office. He’s a good mate of mine. To have your electorate office brutally attacked in this way was just awful. These incidents are terrible and I really hope that that AFP task force, which now involves 21 dedicated officers, will be able to find the perpetrators and bring them to justice.
SOLLY:
Alright, on the CHOICE report which has come out, the CHOICE quarterly report, where’s the best supermarket for people to do their shopping? Where’s the cheapest – maybe the best is the wrong word, Andrew Leigh – the cheapest supermarket for people to do their shopping as judged by this latest quarterly report.
LEIGH:
Well, Aldi’s again come out on top and that’s something that I think many Canberrans will recognise as they look to do what the boffins call ‘split basket shopping’. Again, Aldi isn’t a full range supermarket, but I think many people find when they’re under cost‑of‑living pressure that they can pick up much of their groceries there. And then we’re seeing also a comparison there between Coles and Woolworths, again relatively close. And we’ve done this in order to put more pressure on the supermarkets in order to get a better deal for Australian consumers. And since we last talked about the CHOICE quarterly price monitoring, we’ve had a number of important developments. Our merger reforms, the biggest merger shake‑up in 50 years have passed the parliament. The Food and Grocery Code of Conduct has come into legislation for that has passed which is important for farmers and we’ve seen the states and territories agree to national competition policy, including measures to get more grocery competition.
SOLLY:
When they did the survey, CHOICE, what sort of products did they look at? I understand a leg of lamb was one which is obviously, you know, in the lead up to Christmas, quite important.
LEIGH:
Absolutely. So, they’ve done – they don’t disclose their precise items, Ross.
SOLLY:
What I saw is a leg of lamb and a tub of ice cream, which to me that just sounds like a 2 course meal for me. That’s perfect.
LEIGH:
Exactly. All the major food groups! So, with their basket of groceries, they’re quite careful not to disclose precisely what’s in the basket because they don’t want retailers to be gaming the system. But then alongside that, they’ve also priced a leg of lamb on the bone. They find that Coles and Woolies equal first for that. Aldi in third place. With the ice cream they get Aldi in first place, Coles and Woolies just a smidgen behind. So, it’s useful to provide a little bit more precision there. Again, Ross, this is all about getting maximum competitive pressure on the supermarkets and so shoppers get the best deal.
SOLLY:
On the text line, can you please ask Andrew Leigh about the same supermarket chain that has different pricing of the same item depending on what suburb you’re in? Is that commonplace Andrew Leigh?
LEIGH:
So that tends to happen at IGA. Coles, Woolies and Aldi now have at least statewide pricing, in some cases nationwide pricing.
SOLLY:
And also a question from Terry, is the government looking at regulation of dynamic pricing in supermarkets, algorithms designed to maximise duopoly profits while removing capacity of customers to transparently compare prices seem to lock in high and unpredictable pricing by those who control the grocery market? That’s from Terry, Andrew Leigh.
LEIGH:
Terry goes to an important point, which is why we’ve gotten the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission to do the first review of supermarket competition in 16 years. And one of the things they’re looking at is pricing practices across the major supermarkets and people’s ability to compare. Some of the online algorithms do allow grocery price comparison. If you really want to squeeze down the margins on every possible item, it is important that those prices be readily accessible to people who want to be able to compare.
SOLLY:
Andrew Leigh we’ll leave it there. Thanks for your time this morning.
LEIGH:
Real pleasure, Ross thank you.
SOLLY:
Bye bye. That’s Andrew Leigh, the federal MP for Fenner.