ROSS SOLLY:
Dr Andrew Leigh, the member for Fenner, is also the Assistant Minister of Competition and joins us on the ABC Canberra Drive show. Dr Leigh, thanks for joining us.
ANDREW LEIGH:
Pleasure Ross, great to be with you.
SOLLY:
Just before we talk about that, you heard in the PM promo there, there’s been some argy‑bargy, some talk today about Anthony Albanese’s decision to spend over $4 million on this beach house. Now, I think fair, look, whatever, you know, people work hard and how they spend their money is their business. But do you think it’s a good look at this particular time, Andrew Leigh, for Anthony Albanese to be splashing out over $4 million on this beach house?
LEIGH:
Well, the Prime Minister’s gotten engaged to Jodie, who’s a Coastie. There’s no secret that she comes from that neck of the woods and has been there for 3 generations. I think it’s appropriate that if he wants to look at having a place on the coast so Jodie can be close to her family, then that’s reasonable. In terms of what we’re doing in order to make it easier for people to get into the housing market…
SOLLY:
But just on that, before I let you tell us what you’re doing, I’m more worried about how people might view this, Andrew Leigh. You know, we know a lot of people are struggling to pay their mortgage. A lot of people are finding it really, really hard to get into the housing market. Is there at all a worry that this is a bad look at a time when people are struggling?
LEIGH:
Well, look, what we’re focused on right now is getting that Help to Buy package…
SOLLY:
I know that. But what do you think about how this comes across, how this looks?
LEIGH:
Well, Ross, judge us on what we’re doing in terms of policy. That’s really the test of a government. Right now, we’ve got Help to Buy, the shared equity scheme. The Greens went to the last election promising a shared equity scheme and now they’re blocking this one in the Senate along with the Coalition. So, clowns to the left of us, jokers to the right. We’re trying to get…
SOLLY:
Stuck in the middle with you.
LEIGH:
Exactly. We’re trying to get Help to Buy through the Senate and so that thousands more Australians can buy a home. That’s the core focus here. I understand that people are interested in the story that’s about today.
SOLLY:
Yeah.
LEIGH:
But the real focus we’ve got is on making it easier for people to buy a home by building on the shared equity schemes that have worked so well in a bunch of states.
SOLLY:
At the risk, Dr Andrew Leigh, of you flipping the bird at me, I’m going to ask you once again, do you…
LEIGH:
I’d never flip the bird at you, Ross!
SOLLY:
No, I know, and I can’t see you so you may be doing it right now, but can I ask you one last time, just the optics of it. I mean, it has been played up in some media areas that this is a bad look, that it is a bad signal to be sending out to everyday Australians.
LEIGH:
I think the Prime Minister is entitled to have a private life and is entitled to make different arrangements when he falls in love and gets engaged. So, that’s how I would regard it.
SOLLY:
Alright, 14 minutes to 6. So, thank you for not flipping the bird at me Andrew Leigh. What are subscription traps and what are you targeting in particular in this latest crackdown?
LEIGH:
Well, this is going after unfair trading practices, and there’s 3 in particular we’re going after. You mentioned the subscription traps there, Ross, where you subscribe to a streaming service or a gym. Really easy to get in, but then really tough to get out. Bit of a Hotel California situation where they make it unduly difficult to unsubscribe. Then, there’s dynamic pricing where you go online, you start off buying a good, you’ve got a particular price, and then suddenly, as you go through the process, they up the price on you because there’s a bunch of other people looking to buy. And the third one is drip pricing, where you go to buy a product which is advertised at a particular price, and then you get the add ons and add ons, and so you end up paying more than the advertised price. Unfair trading practices will apply to other things as well, but it’s those 3 pernicious practices that we’re going after.
SOLLY:
It’s easy to say we’re going to crack down on it, but as we’ve seen before, it’s very, very hard to get some of these companies to toe the line, especially big international companies Andrew Leigh. How are you going to do this? How are you going to get a company that’s based in Europe or based in America to change their practices and to basically care about what you’re trying to do here?
LEIGH:
Well, just because you’re a multinational doesn’t mean you don’t have to comply with the Australian Consumer Law. And so we’ve tightened the Australian Consumer Law in other areas. When we came to office, we increased the penalties for anti‑competitive conduct and banned unfair contract terms, and these changes apply to small businesses as they do to large ones. The whole point of what we’re doing here is to make sure that there is a better deal for Australian families. These large multinational firms offer a lot of products where people are excited to buy, but they also need to make sure they’re not engaging in unfair trading practices.
SOLLY:
What about dynamic pricing, which we’ve heard a bit about this week, Andrew Leigh, and I’m sure you would have been with all your music references this afternoon, which I’m enjoying, by the way, but I’m sure you’d been in the queue for Oasis tickets. What are you going to do about dynamic pricing?
LEIGH:
Look, I would have loved to get into the Oasis tickets. And yeah, you saw in the United States the complete outrage as Oasis fans found themselves in the queue with the price being bumped up and up according to the number of people in the queue. Thankfully, when they sold the tickets to Australians, they didn’t engage in dynamic pricing, but we’ve seen it in other contexts. So that will be a form of unfair trading practices that specifically called out with this reform, because it’s just not fair to have sellers changing the price on you from what was originally advertised.
SOLLY:
Also, in the news this week, Andrew Leigh, there’s been a lot of talk about debit and credit card surcharging and a lot of people feeling very upset about the way this operates. What are you going to do about that? Can you crackdown in this area?
LEIGH:
Yeah, well, subject to our conversations with the Reserve Bank, we’re looking at banning debit card surcharging from the beginning of 2026 and then also looking at a careful crackdown on credit card surcharging. Those surcharges have gotten big and they’re not just hurting consumers, Ross, they’re also hurting small businesses, because small businesses will often be unable to negotiate as good a credit card fee as large businesses. So those small businesses are really feeling the squeeze, just as Australian consumers are. You know, a couple of dollars here, a couple of dollars there, but over time, these things really add up.
SOLLY:
When do you think you’ll have your new subscription trap laws in place?
LEIGH:
Well, you’ve got to be consulted with the states and territories. Everything we do in the competition consumer space, because of the Constitution, means we’ve got to engage with states and territories, but my colleague Stephen Jones is going to work with them with the aim of landing it in the first half of next year.
SOLLY:
Andrew Leigh, good to chat with you this afternoon. Thank you.
LEIGH:
Real pleasure, Ross. And one more shout‑out to you while we’re on the air. You did such a fabulous job in MCing today’s event for Hands Across Canberra. Great charity, and you brought a wonderful sense of fun to what was a really worthy and important occasion.
SOLLY:
Andrew Leigh, that’s very kind of you to say that. You can check out any time you want, but you can never leave.
LEIGH:
You notice I put it at the end so it didn’t look like I was buttering you up.
SOLLY:
Yeah, exactly right. Because especially it would have been funny if you flipped the bird at me and then you complimented me at the end of the interview. But no, look, and can I just say, Dr Andrew Leigh, that’s very kind of you, but can I also give a plug for the charity Hands Across Canberra? Because it is a wonderful charity and they do incredible work and it’s great to see so many people in the room today feeling so passionate about it. I did tell a story earlier on. There was a bit of an incident at my table, Dr Leigh, where somebody accidentally took my bread roll. But that’s okay, we’ve moved on from that. I’ve built a bridge. I’m moving on.
LEIGH:
Hands Across Canberra and hands across Ross’s plate.
SOLLY:
Indeed. Dead right. Thank you very much, Dr Leigh. Appreciate your time.
LEIGH:
Thanks, Ross.