ROSS SOLLY:
Watching it all unfold on the hill today. Maybe he even took part in some of the discussions, some of the debate, local member Andrew Leigh. Good afternoon to you, Andrew Leigh.
ANDREW LEIGH:
Good afternoon, Ross. Great to be with you and your listeners.
SOLLY:
Yes, I watched a bit of Question Time today. I’ve been, for my sins, I have been listening to some of the argy‑bargy that’s been going on. A couple of people texting earlier on said it’s a bit of a dark day in Australian politics when the debate sort of centres on how we treat refugees, etcetera. What’s your take on it? Zali Steggall used the ‘r’ word, the ‘racist’ word. Was that going too far?
LEIGH:
Well, I think it’s too easy when you take Peter Dutton’s approach to forget the humanity of the people that we’re talking about. These are people who, in some cases, have lost children, have lost their homes, have lost their livelihoods. They are appealing to come to Australia because they’re absolutely desperate. The war in Gaza has gone on for too long, has claimed too many lives. It needs to end, and in the meantime, it is appropriate that Australia looks to take refugees from that region.
SOLLY:
But Peter Dutton’s argument, Andrew Leigh, is that the checks and balances aren’t sufficient. He says when they were in government, and they allowed Syrian refugees to come in, the checks were much more comprehensive, much more thorough. He’s suggesting that, at the moment, ASIO might be carrying out some form of checks, but they’re not thorough enough. So, isn’t he right to raise concerns about this?
LEIGH:
ASIO is headed by the same person it was under Peter Dutton. The rules are the same as they were under Peter Dutton. We have a Movement Alert List that’s updated every 24 hours and names are checked against that. And Peter Dutton knows full well that there have been 10,033 visa applications from Palestinians since October 7. Of those, 2,922 have been approved, 7,111 have been rejected. So, there’s less than a third of the visa applications have been granted. But it is appropriate when people can get through – which they can’t at the moment because the Rafah border crossing is closed – that Australia plays its part in dealing with this humanitarian disaster.
SOLLY:
So, you’re confident, Andrew Leigh, that the checks and balances are in place and that we’re not letting in people who might, as Peter Dutton said, pose a threat to our security and to our safety?
LEIGH:
Absolutely. Peter Dutton, by playing these political games, is undermining national security. If he didn’t have confidence in the ASIO Director‑General, he should have said so when he was reappointed. He said nothing of the sort. He’s simply looking to play political games, and it’s really disappointing, Ross, that he’s doing that in a week where we should be coming together as Australians to celebrate our remarkable Olympians bringing home 53 medals from Paris. This could have been a week of national unity. Instead, characteristically, Peter Dutton has looked to sow division.
SOLLY:
But I mean, if it is a concern, if he does have concerns about it, if he does think – and what I saw in Question Time today, Andrew Leigh, he was pretty confident that the checks and balances are nowhere near as stringent as they were. Isn’t he right? I mean, that’s the job of the Opposition Leader, isn’t it? He’s concerned that, you know, there might be safety issues here. You can’t just say, oh, it’s not a good time now because our Olympians are coming home. If he’s genuinely concerned, should he not raise it?
LEIGH:
When Peter Dutton had this ministry, Labor was supportive of what he did in allowing people to come for Australia from Afghanistan, from Syria. We did so under exactly the same national security laws, exactly the same visa screening approach that currently applies. Peter Dutton is simply looking to divide. This is somebody who has consistently failed to speak up for the harm done to Palestinian people through the Gaza war, consistently failed to recognise the many children and vulnerable people who have been killed through this conflict. There have been babies and children killed in Palestinian territories and I’m yet to hear Peter Dutton, or any member of his team for that matter, speaking out against those atrocities, against the attacks on aid workers. The conflict has gone on long enough. It is time for Hamas and Israel to accept the peace deal that’s been on the table for 2 months now, brokered by Egypt, Qatar and the United States. That peace deal has been ratified by the United Nations Security Council. Very unusual for that to happen. The parties need to bring peace to that region.
SOLLY:
You already know this because I know you’ll be listening to the show, Andrew Leigh. Eighty eight per cent of the ABC Canberra Drive listeners agree with you at this stage, yes, Australians should be giving visas to refugees from Palestine. Twelve per cent of our listeners are saying, no, we shouldn’t be doing it. On the CFMEU bill, I heard Murray Watt, your Minister on Radio National this morning, sounding reasonably confident that the laws would pass today, that they’d be in place unless something’s changed in the last little bit. I don’t think that’s happened, has it?
LEIGH:
That’s right. The Coalition extraordinarily has again voted with the Greens political party to stop the legislation that would allow the Minister to appoint an administrator to the construction division of the CFMEU. Now, there are 2 sets of people aiming to block that course of action. One is the CFMEU lawyers. The other are the Coalition and the Greens. The Coalition promised on Wednesday to pass the legislation this week. They have been urged to do so by the Australian Constructors Association and the Master Builders Association. And yet, remarkably, they’ve chosen to vote against this bill. That is exactly what the CFMEU lawyers would want.
SOLLY:
Correct me if I’m wrong, the Opposition’s concern is that it’s not tight enough, that it allows the government to allow the CFMEU out of the administrative position too easily and it needs to be locked in for a longer period of time. Is that one of the sticking points?
LEIGH:
Well, the Greens would like the administrator period to be shorter. The Coalition would like it to be longer. The fact is we just need to get on and get this in place. We believe 3 years is the appropriate period of time. That ensures the administrator is able to look into the very serious allegations that have been made of bullying and thuggery. These allegations are concerning to everyone in Australia, but particularly to those who believe in the value of trade unions in boosting workers’ pay and conditions. It is vital that we get that administrator in quickly. And yet it’s the Coalition and the Greens who are operating a protection racket for the construction division of the CFMEU.
SOLLY:
Just on that, we did put a request in, by the way, for the local branch of the CFMEU to come on and have a chat to us to tell us their thoughts on this, but they were once again not available. A lot of the other governments around the country, Andrew Barr, have cut ties with the CFMEU. But here in the act, unless things have changed, my understanding is that Andrew Barr has announced that the local party won’t be taking donations anymore, but have not cut ties with the CFMEU. Should they? Do you think that’s important?
LEIGH:
I think the decision that Andrew Barr has made is the right one. We won’t take donations, but the ACT branch is not one of the branches against which the allegations have been made.
SOLLY:
That’s not according to the local MBA, Master Builders Association. You might have seen they said some time ago that exactly the same thing happens here in the ACT.
LEIGH:
I have not seen credible allegations of the kind that we’ve seen in other jurisdictions for the ACT. And it’s true that the ACT would be affected by this decision to bring in an administrator. It is also possible for the ACT branch then to make an application to be moved out of administration, given that the allegations have been made against officials in other jurisdictions.
SOLLY:
All right, just before I let you go, Andrew Leigh. I know you made a speech to the parliament yesterday congratulating the AIS for the role it played in our medals. It sort of, obviously, it just proves the point that Canberra is the natural home, doesn’t it, for the AIS?
LEIGH:
It really does, Ross. So, when you look at the basketballers, almost every basketballer has come through the AIS, through Basketball Australia’s Centre for Excellence. You look at the swimmers like Bronte Campbell, you look at the kayakers. The men’s K4 spent a lot of time with some of the techie folk at the AIS in order to get things right.
SOLLY:
Is that their official job title, by the way? Techie folk?
LEIGH:
Yeah, I think that’s what they put on their business card.
SOLLY:
Ok. Yep.
LEIGH:
And Shane Rose, the equestrian, used the AIS facilities in recovery. The gymnasts are there. It really is that valuable resource for all elite sportspeople across the country and is going to do a power of work thanks to our $250 million injection in preparing athletes for Los Angeles and Brisbane.
SOLLY:
That’s not even an election year. Andrew Leigh, good to chat with you. Thank you for your time this afternoon.
LEIGH:
Likewise. Thanks, Ross.