Stephen Cenatiempo:
Time to talk federal politics with the Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury and the Member for Fenner Andrew Leigh. Andrew, good morning.
Andrew Leigh:
Good morning, Stephen, great to be with you.
Cenatiempo:
Lots to talk about this morning. I want to talk about some research that was released alongside Dr Steve Robson on social media’s impact on young Australians. Now there’s a bunch of sources that are documenting substantial worsening in the mental well‑being of Australians aged 15 to 24. Look, I think this wouldn’t be anything that surprises anybody.
Leigh:
We wanted to document it as well as we could exactly what we’ve seen about young people’s mental health since the emergence of social media. Now other people have looked at 1 or 2 surveys, we wanted to look at every possible bit of data out there.
What we found is consistent and really troubling. The share of young people reporting a mental disorder is up 50 per cent. The rate of self‑harm hospitalisations in young people is up 35 per cent. The suicide rate among young people is up 34 per cent.
The increases in all of those cases are worse for young women than for young men, which is consistent with what we know about social media: that it tends to damage the mental well‑being of young women more than it does the mental well‑being of young men.
Cenatiempo:
So, the question is what do we do about it?
Leigh:
Well, the social media age ban kicks in in December. The platforms are going through their process now, working out how they’ll stand up an age assurance technology. There are fines of $50 million if they don’t comply with that. And I think those laws then empower parents to have those conversations with kids.
All of us who are parents know how tough it is to get kids off devices. Part of it is about saying no. Part of it is also about making sure that we’ve got great options for kids to get involved with. My office, along with all the other federal parliamentarians have volunteer grants. I’m really thinking about how those volunteer grants can be used to support sporting organisations that provide young kids a chance to kick a footy or go for a run and just get off the phone.
Cenatiempo:
You and I have had a discussion about the age ban which is not going to work and there are other options that were available for free to the government, but the government decided not to listen and actually give parents control over their kids’ social media access. But I mean there’s got to be more done at a more fundamental level I guess, you know, well, maybe educates the right word, inform kids about the dangers of social media, or there needs to be a more societal shift to a more polite discourse, for lack of a better way of putting it.
Leigh:
I couldn’t agree more, Stephen. I think one of the things about a democracy is we’ve got to respect difference and understand that people will have different views and in turn to our own, and those people should be engaged with rather than demonised.
I get really worried when I see these surveys in other countries suggesting that a fifth to a tenth of people see those of the other political party as being ‘animals’ or somehow sub‑human. There’s been a huge rise in some countries in the share of people who say they wouldn’t let their child marry someone of a different political party.
Now all of that seems to suggest to me that the democracy has gotten a lot more fractious and I think social media is a part of that.
Cenatiempo:
But I mean how do you fix that though? Because I mean as somebody that sits in the house up on the hill, and I think back to you know, and you would have seen the mini‑series True Believers where, you know, Sir Robert Menzies and Ben Chifley back in the day would go and have a drink together at the end of day’s parliament and discuss what had gone on. You’d never see Peter Dutton and Anthony Albanese do that. I mean, and I know there are exceptions to that rule.
Like I’ve got 2 very close friends in the Parliament, one in the National Party and one in the Labor Party who, you know, go and have dinner together on a regular basis and chat, and I know that does go on. But is there some way to foster that, I guess, you know, question time’s always going to be robust, we know that. I think it’s useless the way it’s currently structured but that’s a debate for another day. But outside of question time how do we foster a better relationship across the political divide?
Leigh:
I think it’s up to each of us. We had a lovely valedictory speech yesterday from Graham Perrett, the Member for Morton in Brisbane, where he talked about the fact that 85 per cent of federal political marriages fail. He said he’s never been tempted to stray and then he looked across the chamber and said, ‘But there was one moment when Darren Chester offered me a lift home’. So, moments of levity like that.
Cenatiempo:
Yeah.
Leigh:
That makes people realise that there is a lot of commonality across the parliament. I think that’s really important. And probably more important now than back in the days of Menzies and Chifley.
Cenatiempo:
Yeah, well, no doubt about that. I mean, you know, I think society was a lot friendlier back then just in general.
Now I want to talk about an announcement that’s been made to extend the PACER Program, the Parliament and Civics Education Rebate. This is vitally important for 2 reasons. Firstly, I think civics education is important, and it seems to have gone by the wayside. But it’s also good from a tourism perspective for Canberra.
Leigh:
It’s fantastic for Canberra. The PACER Program brings a whole lot of kids to Canberra to learn about the democracy. You know, the places they visit the most are the Parliament House and the War Memorial. That’s critical to learning about the sacrifice that we’ve made to safeguard our democracy, and how the democracy works today.
So, the boost will mean that for someone who’s in a remote disadvantaged school in New South Wales, they’ll get $165 per student, up from $45 a student. So, it’s really targeting some of those more disadvantaged schools. The advantaged schools have always been able to get the money together. Schools in poorer parts of Australia have struggled to get kids to Canberra.
Cenatiempo:
That’s great if you’re living in New South Wales, because I believe there’s a geographical distance for that. Can other states and territories access this as well? Because I mean and I think back to my time. I can’t remember if it was first time to Canberra or not, but 1988 when Parliament House opened, we did a school trip down here and I’m, you know, sad to say that a lot of the things I saw back in '88 I haven’t seen since I’ve been living here. But well, I’ve been to the War Memorial and Parliament House plenty of times, but beyond that how do we get more kids down here to see these things?
I mean Parliament’s important. I think every kid should go and see Parliament in operation, if nothing more, to see how badly you guys behave. But the War Memorial you talk about, you know, we’ll have the Holocaust Education Centre before long. There are so many institutions. I mean the Mint was one of my favourite things when I came down here. There’s so much to look at here and it’s so important to providing the next generation of voters an understanding of what’s actually going on in the world.
Leigh:
Absolutely. The Mint is the biggest manufacturer in Canberra so a terrific site to see. But look, Stephen, you’re totally right in saying that in the past the PACER subsidy hasn’t met the cost of the airfare. So previously if you were in a disadvantaged school in remote Northern Territory the maximum rebate was $510. Now that’ll go to $2,040, which is an amount that stands to be able to meet the airfare. It’s enabling people for the first time to have those costs fully covered if they’re in a disadvantage school.
Cenatiempo:
So that, that $2,040, so that basically covers well, it has to cover your flights, your accommodation, the whole trip basically, which generally we’re talking a two‑day trip, so you would hope that most kids could get away with it for that amount of money.
Leigh:
That’s right, and that means that for those kids in a remote disadvantaged part of the Northern Territory, suddenly the national capital is accessible.
Cenatiempo:
Yeah.
Leigh:
Suddenly they’re able to come here, to see so much of what it is part of being Australian. Now I think the success of Canberra operates on us making clear to everyone else in Australia that this isn’t just our city, it’s the nation’s capital for everyone. People are welcome to come from throughout the nation and there’s a great lot of things to be seen here.
Cenatiempo:
Amen to that. Andrew, good to talk to you. We’ll catch up with you in a couple of weeks.
Leigh:
Great, thanks Stephen.
Cenatiempo:
Andrew Leigh is the Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury and the Member for Fenner.