Clinton Maynard:
I want to speak with the Assistant Minister for Productivity, Andrew Leigh. Andrew has announced a range of measures at a federal level to start tackling this problem. Hi Andrew.
Andrew Leigh:
G’day Clinton, great to be with you.
Maynard:
So, what are you proposing?
Leigh:
So we’ve asked the competition watchdog, the ACCC, to develop a mandatory safety standard that will determine what kind of bikes can be sold. The Transport Ministers have already agreed to set standards on what can be ridden. This sets standards on what can be sold and cracks down on exactly the problem that you’ve talked about.
E‑bikes can be really useful for getting around and taking some of the pressure off the roads. But what we don’t want is to see these unsafe, overpowered bikes out on the road. Some of them are being sold so they can be modified, and setting a clear standard that takes into account modification, I think, is going to be important.
Maynard:
Okay. Now that’s a crucial point there you raised there, Andrew. So in NSW, the law is at 25 kilometres an hour the electric motor is supposed to completely cut out. So if you’re going down a hill, you’re going to exceed that. But you shouldn’t be under electric power over 25. That’s on the road. But if you’re off the road, you can go faster than that. And that’s where a lot of these bikes are being overridden with the software. How do you stop that?
Leigh:
Well, some of the bikes that comply with the international standard, which prevents modification, will do a factory reset if they detect an attempt to modify. Other ones will go further than that, they will actually slow down the assist to just 6 kilometres an hour.
Maynard:
But if you can legally use a bike off‑road, so not on a public road and it can go above that 25 kilometres an hour, does that mean it can then be brought into the country and legally sold?
Leigh:
What we’re doing now is setting a standard on what can be sold, and I would expect that that will follow fairly closely what can be ridden on roads. What we don’t want is this proliferation of bikes coming in which are illegal to ride on the roads. If it looks more like a motorbike, we want to keep it off the road.
Maynard:
And that’s the problem. They’re being used off‑road, so Mum and Dad are buying it for their kids and then the kids are using the override software to say, ‘Oh, yeah, I’m using it off‑road’ but they’re really using it on the road?
Leigh:
That’s right. That’s right. And so the international standards that will be guiding the ACCC’s work takes into account power – 250 watts, speed – 25 kilometres an hour and prevention against modification. So these are the things the ACCC will be working on. It’s also going to develop a broader standard around other e‑micromobility devices, such as e‑scooters and those single‑wheel devices. But e‑bikes are the first priority.
Maynard:
Andrew, in practice how do you then police it? Do you have inspections of shops? Do you search shipping containers when they arrive in the country?
Leigh:
The ACCC does all of that and it works for the state and territory regulators. So, Clinton, last week the Consumer Ministers got together in Darwin. We agreed to make this a priority. And that means that when the standard is set by the ACCC, it’ll be enforced by NSW Fair Trading and by all of its counterpart state and territory bodies.
Maynard:
So would there actually be inspections of shops?
Andrew Leigh:
They’ll be able to do inspections of shops, they’ll be able to do inspections of what’s coming into the country and they’ll also be able to respond to reports from consumers.
Maynard:
Now, this isn’t your direct responsibility. I know this is a state issue, but it has been proposed in some areas of some schools, for instance, are doing it. Do you think there should be some sort of licensing system for the riders?
Leigh:
Look, I think that would be pretty complicated to have a whole licensing system just for e‑bikes. I think the approach that Consumer Ministers and Transport Ministers preferred is to say, ‘Let’s allow vehicles that just give you a little top up’, and they can be really useful. They can allow somebody to ride a bike in a hilly area –
Maynard:
But Andrew, we had an incident in Sydney. You’d be aware of this incident. It was front page news all over the country where there were 40 e‑bike riders on the Sydney Harbour Bridge. They were doing the wrong thing. And I spoke with the police the day after it occurred. They admitted they couldn’t track down a lot of these e‑bike riders because there was no registration, there was no licence, there was no identity?
Leigh:
Yeah. I mean, cyclists doing the wrong thing has been a perennial challenge for authorities going all the way back. What we want to do is make sure that the kind of e‑bikes that are around are doing the sort of thing that a slightly fitter cyclist would be able to do, not the sort of thing that a motorbike would be able to do.
Maynard:
And I realise licensing is not your responsibility. Your responsibility – and you’re talking about things at a national level when it comes to the country. But when you’re sitting around that table with all the ministers from each state, and I know that this is a problem in every state, is there a discussion about identification, registration, licensing at all?
Leigh:
Transport Ministers have considered that. The approach that they’ve taken is to set standards on the e‑bikes. Make sure these are e‑bikes that are a power assist, not ones that you can simply turn on and go without even moving your feet. And so then they’re doing what e‑bikes were always meant to do, Clinton, which is allowing people to perform like they were a fitter cyclist rather than allowing them perform like they’re Superman.
Maynard:
I’m with Andrew Leigh, the Assistant Minister for Productivity. Appreciate your time, Andrew. One last one for you. The e‑bikes have now been on our roads for the best part of 8 or 9 years. Why has it taken this long?
Leigh:
Well, the Transport Ministers have moved, and Consumer Ministers are moving now –
Maynard:
They’re moving quite late! It’s a bit like illegal tobacco?
Leigh:
Well, the Transport Minister’s work has already taken effect. This is a technology that has been moving fast. Eight or 9 years ago, the battery technology just wasn’t there.
Maynard:
Yeah.
Leigh:
So, we weren’t seeing these bikes on our roads. It’s gotten a lot cheaper. That’s meant that the bikes have flooded in, and that’s why we’re taking action.
Maynard:
So the timeframe now, you’ve obviously referred to the ACCC. When will we actually see firm action that these are the rules and this is now the process?
Leigh:
They will set the standard early next year, and that’ll then be enforced by the ACCC and by all the states and territories’ fair trading regulators.
Maynard:
Okay. It’s a step in the right direction, thank you Andrew.
Leigh:
Thanks Clinton.
Maynard:
Andrew Leigh, who is the Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury.