James Findlay:
Dr Andrew Leigh is the Assistant Minister for Competition and the Member for Fenner. Very good morning to you Assistant Minister. What are you trying to legislate?
Andrew Leigh:
Well James, we’re cracking down on subscription traps among other things. Too many Australians have found themselves unable to quit a subscription – whether that’s being signed up to a gym that allows you to join online but then says you’ve got to phone if you want to cancel, or whether it’s a subscription which runs you through all sorts of unreasonable ‘confirmshaming’ tricks in order to try and keep your business. Subscriptions can be a handy way of managing modern life, but we’re asking people to play fair. And if you’re providing a subscription, it should be as easy to quit the subscription as it was to start it.
Findlay:
What feedback are you getting from people?
Leigh:
Uniformly positive. I think Australians like their subscriptions, but they also like being in control of them. And too many Australians have had stories of being unable to quit a subscription. It’s good for business too, because currently there’s firms out there that are playing fair – that are allowing people to quit subscriptions when they want to – who are up against competitors that aren’t doing the right thing and that drives a race to the bottom.
So by setting these standards, by banning unfair trading practices, subscription traps and drip pricing it’s also good for the competitive economy where firms are then encouraged to compete on high‑quality services.
Findlay:
What are you hearing from the business community about these proposed changes? Not that you’ve said what the changes are yet, but what are you hearing from the business community?
Leigh:
Well, many firms do the right thing. I mean, we’ve had a beef with Apple on various scores but certainly when it comes to subscriptions, Apple does it well. A monthly email says how much you pay for your subscriptions and all the subscriptions are in one place on your iPhone or iPad if you want to cancel them. That’s a good model for other people to follow. And we’re encouraging other firms to be transparent and upfront with their customers. Don’t set up a kind of Hotel California situation where people can check out, but they can never leave.
Findlay:
Yeah. Each time we’ve talked about this on the radio, because it’s not my first time talking about this on the radio. There’s often the example of some Scandinavian countries that gets brought up, that you know that the services need to be as easy to unsubscribe as they are to subscribe. Is that something you’re looking to potentially legislate?
Leigh:
Yes absolutely. So, getting rid of subscription traps means saying firmly to firms, look, if you can sign up on the app, you should be able to unsubscribe on the app. If you can sign up on the website, you should be able to unsubscribe on the website. Don’t engage in these sorts of psychological tricks and traps. Just focus on providing a good service to your customers.
And alongside that, James, we’re banning drip pricing which is the practice of adding hidden per‑transaction fees at the very end of the process rather than being upfront with people right at the start; the concert ticket is going to cost $100. Don’t tell them it’s going to cost $90 and then they get to the end and discover an additional $10 fee.
Findlay:
Yeah. How are you going to apply this? Who’s going to be making sure that these companies are doing the right thing?
Leigh:
So, one of the good things about the competition law is that it’s a compact between states and territories. I convened in Canberra a meeting of all the competition ministers – state, territory and federal – on the 21st of November and we all agreed to focus on unfair trading practices.
So, when the legislation goes through which hopefully will be next year, then you won’t just have the federal competition regulator – the ACCC, cracking down on these practices, but also all of these state and territory regulators, such as ACT Fair Trading.
Findlay:
When are you looking to introduce this legislation? Is there much interest across the aisle to get it through the Senate?
Leigh:
A lot of interest, a lot of enthusiasm. I’m yet to run into a parliamentarian who says subscription traps are a great thing and they shouldn’t be outlawed. I think there’s a real concern about subscription traps right across the parliament, so our aim is to bring in legislation next year.
Findlay:
Okay, well looking forward to seeing that and how it might affect people. We’re getting plenty of texts on this so it’s certainly something that many Canberrans are affected by. Andrew Leigh, I understand that you’ve got another appointment to get to, so we’ll let you go and we’ll talk again.
Leigh:
Terrific. Thanks James, and please if people have stories they can contact me directly. It really helps us push forward those reforms to have those personal stories.
Findlay:
Fantastic. How’s the best way to do that Mr Leigh?
Leigh:
Just drop me an email. My website is the modestly named www.andrewleigh.com, so I’m not difficult to find.
Findlay:
Fantastic, thank you.
Leigh:
Thank you.
Findlay:
Dr Andrew Leigh there, Member for Fenner and also the Assistant Minister for Competition.