Leon Delaney:
The federal Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury, not to mention our local member right here in the federal seat of Fenner, Dr Andrew Leigh has issued a number of proclamations in recent days. Yesterday the proclamation was headed, ‘We filled the lake; now let’s build the homes’. Andrew, good afternoon.
Andrew Leigh:
Good afternoon Leon, it’s great to be with you.
Delaney:
Thanks for joining us today. You’ve certainly been very busy, but let’s start with filling the lake and building the houses because here in Canberra you’ve drawn this comparison to the obstacles that had to be overcome in order to create Lake Burley Griffin, and the obstacles that we have to overcome in order to build more houses. What’s the connection?
Leigh:
Well back in the late 1950s, the blockers to filling the lake were the Royal Canberra Golf Club. We love our golfers, but they fought tooth and nail in order to stop Lake Burley Griffin being filled in, and the move to the current location of the golf club in Westbourne Woods. That obstruction by a single organisation is somewhat different from what we face today with housing. It’s not a single organisation that’s opposing housing Leon, but a thicket of regulations which have acted together to stymie development. So, we’re talking about what the ACT Government is doing and what the federal government can collaborate with them on to put in place more medium density housing around our transport nodes.
Delaney:
Now of course, we’re primarily concerned with Canberra but this is not just an ACT problem, this is a problem right across Australia isn’t it? Where state and territory level administration has resulted in a tangle of regulation that does stymie progress when it comes to constructing new housing. Now obviously we need regulation to make sure things are done properly and safely, but have we gone too far?
Leigh:
I think we have and it’s, as you say, less a matter of more or less regulation, more a matter of regulation that’s able to deliver a timely answer to builders so they can get on with doing the job. I’ve spoken to builders now who say that it used to take less time to build the homes than it now takes to get approval for building the homes. And there’s councils in Sydney which are far worse than the ACT timeframe. What we’ve got here is a great opportunity with the territory, with a government that is keen to build and keen to see what they call gentle density that fits within existing streets but eases the housing squeeze.
Delaney:
Now of course there’s an ambitious target, nationally of 1.2 million homes over a five‑year period. Here in the ACT, the ACT Government has suggested 30,000 new homes over that same period of time, but both of those targets as we’ve gone past the first year of that 5 year plan, I’m afraid to say we’re nowhere near on track towards achieving those targets are we?
Leigh:
Well, the ACT Government has been pretty ambitious. Their national share of the target is 21,000, they’ve gone to a target of 30,000 homes. And of course, you don’t want a target that you can just step over – you want a stretch target that’s going to push the system to deliver. That’s what young Canberrans want as the housing affordability challenge gets more and more acute. So, this is a target that goes out ‘til 2029. It’s a period over which state, territory and federal governments are going to be ambitiously working together to get more modular homes, more construction of homes that are aesthetically beautiful, environmentally sound and affordable.
Delaney:
Yes, but the latest official figures from the Australian Bureau of Statistics indicate that we had fewer homes completed in the ACT in the most recent financial year than we did in the previous financial year by a significant margin?
Leigh:
I don’t think it’s a great surprise that in a period where Peter Dutton was threatening to take 40,000 jobs out of Canberra people cooled on the idea of building homes in the ACT. But now that the election is in the rear vision mirror I think we’ve got a great prospect to work together. We’ve said nationally we’ll pause further residential changes to the National Construction Code, we’ll streamline housing approvals and the ACT Government is talking about a set of pre‑approved Canberra house designs which go back to that 400 series homes that were originally built in Canberra suburbs way back in the Menzies era.
Delaney:
Now as I mentioned you’ve been very, very busy lately. In chronological order, yesterday you announced consultation making supermarket price gouging illegal. I would have thought that sort of thing was already illegal?
Leigh:
No, there’s nothing that stops them from price gouging, but certainly if you’re in Europe or the United Kingdom then there are laws against price gouging. We want to make sure Australian shoppers aren’t treated like mugs by 2 big supermarket that between them control two‑thirds of the supermarket market. That’s why we did release these draft laws which will crackdown on excessive pricing and give shoppers a fair go.
Delaney:
Okay. So how do people participate in this consultation process?
Leigh:
They can go to the Treasury website: treasury.gov.au. It’s a short sharp consultation that closes on November 3. We want to hear from shoppers, from supermarkets and from suppliers. Our system is all about making sure that things are fairer for families and fairer for farmers. We want competition to be working all the way through from paddock to pantry.
Delaney:
Okay. Are we really being gouged by our supermarkets? Because it’s still cheaper to go to Coles and Woollies and certainly Aldi than it is to go to a convenience store or a smaller family run small shop, isn’t it?
Leigh:
Look, we’ve seen grocery prices in supermarkets go up more rapidly than the overall rate of inflation according to the competition watchdog’s recent supermarket inquiry. We do know our big supermarkets make quite healthy profits if you compare them to their international counterparts, and Australians spend a good chunk of their pay packets on goods in the supermarket. So, getting a fair deal from the supermarket is a big priority for the government. Of course we’ve done a whole bunch of other things, the merger laws that we passed last year require every supermarket merger to be notified to the Treasurer. We’ve given the competition watchdog more resources to crackdown on supermarket abuse and we’re reviewing the Unit Pricing Code to address shrinkflation.
Delaney:
All right. Can you do something about getting supermarkets to improve their range of choice? Because they’ve been narrowing their range lately and it’s really starting to frustrate me when my favourite products disappear and I have to substitute something else. They’re taking us all for a ride Andrew?
Leigh:
They’re obviously always looking at the supply chains and how much it costs to bring in goods that are going to be sold less often. They’ll always sell you bread and milk, but they may not necessarily sell your favourite kind of biscuits. We’re not looking to regulate supermarkets to that extent. We just want to make sure that the prices are fair. So shoppers may have to go to a different store in order to get that favourite brand they’re after. What the government has their back on is ensuring that they’re not paying more than they should for groceries.
Delaney:
All right then. Earlier today you published an opinion piece about right to repair laws which will empower consumers. What exactly is that all about?
Leigh:
The right to repair is the idea that you should be able to choose the repairer for a product that you buy. This is something which we put in place for motor vehicles 3 years ago when we came to government. We were seeing a decline in independent mechanics because they weren’t getting access to the software tools. Given modern cars are computers on wheels, you need to ensure that mechanics have the tools they need to fix modern cars. We’ve done that for cars; we’re now looking at how it might be extended to other areas such as agricultural machinery.
Delaney:
Okay. There are certain products – consumer products where if it breaks you’re better just buying a new one because it’s too hard to try and get it repaired, and some of those products might be proprietary products that you’re not even allowed to open the case without voiding the warranty, that sort of thing. Is that something that should also be addressed?
Leigh:
Absolutely. I mean if the screen of your iPad breaks you should be able to get that fixed down the mall, not have to take it back to Apple. We certainly support measures such as a consumer’s right to repair where that improves environmental outcomes. So, it’s not just good for people’s hip pocket, it’s also good for the environment if fixable products aren’t being thrown out into landfill. There is an approach in France and Belgium, they have these repairability indices on products so buyers can see how fixable something is before they buy it.
Delaney:
Okay. And finally, today you’ve given a speech to help launch the annual Australian Unity Wellbeing Index. Are we all as Australians enjoying improving wellbeing or is it declining?
Leigh:
It’s improving according to the Australian Unity Wellbeing Index. Personal wellbeing is a small rise, up to a score of 68. National wellbeing up 3 points to 55. So, despite the cost‑of‑living pressures, despite the international turmoil, Australians do seem to be happy with our lot, and that fits in with other international surveys which over the years have shown that Australians have among the highest level of life satisfaction in the world. We don’t want to rest on our laurels but we do want to recognise that we are lucky to be living in this country and we need to all work together in order to ensure that those who are down on their luck and a bit more vulnerable have more of those advantages.
Delaney:
I really can’t let you go without asking. Albo had a great meeting with the US President Donald Trump today, but Kevin Rudd not so much. Should Kevin Rudd be recalled?
Leigh:
Oh, I think there was a bit of banter there. If you play the audio back you can hear everyone chuckling away in that episode there, Leon. No, I thought it was a very successful meeting, reflecting the hard work that Kevin Rudd had done in the lead‑up and the strong rapport between Anthony Albanese and President Trump. That’s good for the nation. We’re a trading nation, we benefit from the strong security relationship with the US and that was only strengthened today.
Delaney:
Yes I know, they were laughing. But were they laughing with Kevin or at him?
Leigh:
I think everyone in that room recognised the hard work that Kevin Rudd has been doing in forging these relationships in the national interest.
Delaney:
Thanks very much for your time today.
Leigh:
Thanks so much Leon.