Ross Solly:
Andrew Leigh is the Assistant Minister for Productivity, and he joins us this morning. Andrew Leigh good morning to you.
Andrew Leigh:
Good morning Ross, great to be with you.
Solly:
It is great to have you on the show this morning. Did you go a run in the minus 7 this morning? Just out of interest Andrew Leigh?
Leigh:
I was on the bike trainer this morning, so a little bit warmer. But I was out running yesterday – wonderfully crisp.
Solly:
Lovely, best time of year to be out and about. Andrew Leigh first of all, can you tell me why does nobody ever talk about increasing the level of GST? When it came in at 10 per cent the discussion was, you know, that there was – in future we could move it around. You’d need all the states and territories on board but if the moment required that it would be something we could look at. But nobody ever talks about it?
Leigh:
Ross, that’s not the way I remember things. I remember it very much as being John Howard saying very firmly, ‘this is locked in at 10 per cent and the way I’ll prove to you it’s locked in at 10 per cent is I’ll include in the legislation, a requirement that every single state and territory has a veto power over any change’.
Solly:
Yeah.
Leigh:
So, my recollection was that was part of, one of the promises that John Howard made and a lock in there.
Solly:
Is that good policy Andrew Leigh? Do you think that’s good policy, or should it be something that we should put on the table every now and then, just to look at what is the fairest way to go forward?
Leigh:
The Treasurer has been very clear that we’re not into these rule‑in rule‑out games Ross, but it’s not something we’re looking at. It’s not something we’re contemplating.
Solly:
No, no, no but that’s not what I’m asking you. That’s not what I’m asking you Andrew Leigh, I’m just asking you as the Assistant Minister for Productivity, should we occasionally have this discussion? I’m not asking you to rule it in or rule it out now, but why are we so scared to talk about this?
Leigh:
Well, I’m very much into productivity Ross, and I think the most productive way of having the tax reform conversation is not to spend a lot of time on a tax for which changes give every Premier a veto.
It’s a more productive conversation to be thinking about, for example, state and territory tax changes – they have the most efficient taxes and the most inefficient taxes – to be talking about some of what we’re doing in banning non‑compete clauses for low‑ and middle‑income workers, National Competition Policy, all the work that Clare O’Neil is doing in housing. You know, that’s our that’s our ambitious agenda for productivity.
Solly:
Yeah, okay. Just one other question on this. I mean, there are some who say that, you know, we don’t have the conviction politicians anymore who would put their reputation – their potential electoral strength on the table by having what could potentially be an uncomfortable discussion about that.
And you know, that we’re forever now going to be looking at politicians who don’t have that crazy, brave attitude anymore, that maybe we need to make big decisions, and maybe a discussion about the future level of GST is one of those decisions, one of those discussions?
Leigh:
Ross, I’d put our reform agenda on competition and multinational tax in the last term up against any previous Australian Government, or up against any other government around the world. We did a huge amount in terms of National Competition Policy, our merger reforms we passed through, an increase in penalties for anti‑competitive conduct. And the multinational tax changes: putting in place a global tax floor, cracking down on debt deductions and some of the world‑leading information sharing we’ve done. That’s really critical.
So, we’re an ambitious, reforming government, and this productivity roundtable will be looking for actionable ideas. And we’re also opening the consultation to the broader community. So Canberrans who have productivity‑boosting ideas – we’re keen to hear from them.
Solly:
Well, let’s hear from them this morning. If you have thoughts this morning folks, I know Andrew Leigh’s pressed for time, but if you have thoughts about what you would like to see and what you think is fair and what should be on the table this morning, why don’t you give us a call or you can send me a text if you’d like to have your say.
This morning, there are reports that Treasury is drawing up ideas on higher taxes for family trusts and electric vehicle drivers. I mean, the whole incentive Andrew Leigh, to get people into electric cars was very successful. Some might say too successful. Is this something we need to revisit? And obviously there’s talk about winding that back?
Leigh:
I haven’t seen any analysis around changes in electric vehicle taxation. What we’ve got is an incentive for people to buy electric vehicles that’s been very successful and contributed to a very rapid uptake of EVs. That’s part of us meeting our ambitious climate targets, and we make no apology for that.
Solly:
But is there a prospect though? Do you think it would be a good idea to have a conversation about whether we put more taxes on electric vehicle drivers? Because at the moment obviously, they’re not paying for petrol et cetera – they’re not paying for road upkeep and that sort of stuff?
Leigh:
That’s not what’s coming across my desk at the moment Ross. I’m very much focused in the competition reform space. The $900 million productivity fund with the states and territories, is going to allow them to do pro‑productivity reforms in areas like planning and zoning. We’re moving towards occupational licensing standardisation so people can work across the border between the ACT and Queanbeyan. Really important for tradies to have that mobility, and that’s great for productivity and growth.
Solly:
I’ve got a caller. Do you have a minute Andrew Leigh?
Leigh:
Absolutely.
Solly:
Okay, let’s take Steve. Good day Steve Bob.
Caller:
Good morning Ross, how are you?
Solly:
Yeah good thanks Steve, the Assistant Minister is listening.
Caller:
Oh good. Well firstly, congratulations on your 22 per cent significant wedge in regards to holding your seat. I think it’s amazing that you’ve got one of the safest seats. But as a Canberran, I would like to know exactly what you’re doing for our locals in regards to anything that you’re supporting. And I’ll give an example Whyalla actually got quite a fair bit of money to support their steelworks prior to the election last year. I just was wondering whether we’d get that additional benefit for our light rail?
And secondly, I would like to ask why Canberra as a region isn’t actually formally designated as a regional centre so that we can get advantages through the tax system that other regions around the other states get?
And thirdly, in regards to what David Pocock has been advocating over the last few years about tax bases of the gas that isn’t being taxed at the moment that goes back to Treasury coffers, rather than actually taxing the citizens of this country?
Solly:
Some big questions there from Steve. Thank you, Steve. Andrew Leigh?
Leigh:
Well, great questions from Steve. And thanks very much for the kind words from the outset there too. So, we’ve increased the Petroleum Resource Rent Tax arrangements, and so the west coast gas projects pay Petroleum Resource Rent Tax now, rather than having that put off until the next decade. That was an important tax reform of the last term.
We have significant promises on the table which we will deliver for the ACT. Everything from Margaret Timpson Park to road upgrades, and of course the community batteries that are rolling out. Unlike the other parties, who I think made no local commitments to Canberra in the last election, which might help explain the election results. We do think that a government which is strongly committed to the public service, strongly committed to the national cultural institutions, really is good for Canberra. Significant investments in the cultural institutions, the War Memorial, the national security precinct – the infrastructure spend from the federal government in the ACT right now is unprecedented.
Solly:
What about on the designated region question that Steve was asking?
Leigh:
We don’t think that pretending Canberra is a regional town is the right way of tackling issues like GP shortages. Instead we’re investing directly in those bulk‑billing centres, aiming to have half a dozen of them up and running so that Canberrans are able to see a bulk‑billing doctor.
Solly:
There is a significant push though, which you’re aware of Andrew Leigh, that it would actually make life a bit easier for us. If we could get our region re‑designated, or get things changed we might be able to get more GPs and more assistance to get GPs?
Leigh:
That’s not the modelling I’ve seen Ross. Obviously, we did look carefully at it. Our judgment was that direct funding for bulk‑billing centres was the way to go. One of the precedents for this is Rockhampton, where government funding for bulk‑billing centres really has turned around the norms in that town.
We’ve moved away from bulk‑billing in the ACT, which means a lot of low‑ and middle‑income Canberrans really struggle to be able to afford to get to a doctor. And we’re working closely with the ACT government. The federal representatives met with the ACT government ministry in Parliament House this week to talk about a range of issues, including GP shortages and how to boost the bulk‑billing rate in Canberra.
Solly:
Nathan’s got a question. Good morning Nathan.
Caller:
Morning Ross, how are you?
Solly:
Yeah, good thanks Nathan.
Caller:
That’s good. Assistant Minister, thanks for your time this morning. There’s something I don’t know a lot about, but I’m interested to hear your thoughts – universal income. Or universal basic income as an alternative to having an employment sector that I think has questionable productivity and just requires people to waste time filling in forms. Would you consider universal income as a possible alternative under a productivity reform?
Leigh:
Well Nathan, it’s a great question and I think you probably expect from somebody representing a party called Labor that I’m in favour of people working. I think work brings not just income, but also dignity, a sense of giving back to the community. You know, there’s a reason why when you meet someone at a party, you don’t ask them what they consume. You ask them what they do, what they produce, what their job is.
So, we’re committed to full employment. We’re very pleased to have delivered the best employment performance of any government in 50 years. And I don’t think that moving to a system where we essentially give up on work because of technology would make sense.
We need to increase those income support payments as we’ve done, as we review them each budget. But the idea of saying, ‘let’s move a large portion of a population onto a universal basic income’, I don’t think would be good for people’s dignity and standard of living.
Solly:
Nathan. thank you so much for your question. And Andrew Leigh I know I need to let you go. Good to chat with you this morning, thank you.
Leigh:
Likewise, thank you.
Solly:
Thank you. That is Andrew Leigh, the Assistant Minister for Productivity, and a lot of texts coming in as well.