Ross Solly:
Well, let’s talk about what’s happening in Iran and in particular, what’s happening here in Australia. Andrew Leigh is the Member for Fenner, also Assistant Minister for Competition. Andrew Leigh, good morning to you.
Andrew Leigh:
Morning Ross, great to be with you.
Solly:
And good to be with you as well. I’m assuming – now, I don’t know if you’ve got figures and you’ve been briefed on this but I’m assuming there are Canberrans who are caught up in the Middle East at the moment who are desperately trying to get home?
Leigh:
Well Canberra is, I guess, 2 per cent of the Australian population, so we know we’ve got over 100,000 people in the Middle East region, suggesting there’s a couple of thousand Canberrans over there. We’re doing all we can, but working primarily with commercial airliners. As you know, the first one arrived this morning. We’re hopeful of 3 more airliners taking off, but it really is dependent on conditions on the ground as to whether it’s safe for those planes to leave Dubai.
Solly:
And it’s absolutely not an option for the government to charter a plane – a Qantas plane or something, as it did in COVID and other times and fly that in there and get people out?
Leigh:
The scale of this is massive, and really working with commercial airliners is the best way to go. They have the planes. It’s just a matter of being able to take off and where it takes off is the main constraint, rather than the hardware. It makes sense to be relying on those commercial options.
The UAE has been very good in terms of providing accommodation for Australians who are stranded there, and we’ve extended our thanks to the government for the way in which they’ve handled that. And we’re working, of course, with those crisis teams, having deployed 6 crisis teams to the region. This is one of the biggest disruptions we’ve seen to the travelling patterns of Australians, just because that Middle East hub is so central to the way Australians get to Europe these days.
Ross Solly:
And there’s a lot who work in that area as well, who must be now desperately trying to get out of there as well?
Leigh:
Absolutely. More than 20,000 Australians living in the UAE.
Solly:
Yeah. That is an incredible figure in itself. Andrew Leigh, you’re a student of international politics and international law, and you’ve studied this sort of stuff, you’ve read this stuff a lot, you’ve written about this sort of stuff. Do you personally have any concerns that Israel and the United States may have contravened international law by mounting this attack on Iran?
Leigh:
Ross, this is a question that’s been asked repeatedly and I’ll give you the same answer that the government has consistently given, which is this is up to the US and Israel to explain the legal basis for the strikes. They’re the ones that have the access to the intelligence and the information that they’ve drawn on.
We certainly do know from an Australian standpoint that Iran has been a significant disruptive actor in Australia. Those 2024 attacks, which led to the first expulsion of an ambassador in the post war era. The role in which they’ve played in the region and funding terror groups has been substantial and I don’t think anyone mourns the death of the Supreme Leader.
Solly:
Well, it seems that some people are – even here in Australia. But just on – I hear what you’re saying about it’s up to the United States and Israel to explain. But anybody who observes international law can have an opinion. Why is it that Australia is not willing to state an opinion one way or another on whether international law has been contravened here? And I ask you that because Mark Carney, who I know you’re going to be meeting today – from a Canadian perspective, he said that he thinks they’ve contravened international law. The UK has said it, France has said it, Spain has said it, Germany has said it. Why are we not taking a position on this?
Leigh:
Ross, as I’ve made clear, the United States and Israel – the ones that have access to the intelligence on which they’ve chosen to base this decision so it is incumbent on them to make this case. We have been very clear that the Iranian regime has been a disruptive force. We know that they were attempting to obtain a nuclear weapon. And Australia, although not a central actor in the Middle East, has played our part in working towards ensuring that Iran doesn’t get its hands on a nuclear weapon.
Solly:
Okay. It is happening in the Middle East but it’s also happening now a lot closer to home. Overnight, off the coast of Sri Lanka, a navy ship – an Iranian navy ship was sunk. This was Pete Hegseth just an hour or so before we came on air on the Breakfast show this morning talking about how the US took out this ship.
[Excerpt]
Pete Hegseth:
Yesterday, in the Indian Ocean – and we’ll play it on screen there – an American submarine sunk an Iranian warship that thought it was safe in international waters. Instead, it was sunk by a torpedo. Quiet death. The first sinking of an enemy ship by a torpedo since World War II.
[End of excerpt]
Solly:
Well in fact, a few people have pointed out that there was one in the Falkland Wars since then, so he’s not quite right there. But that sort of language first and foremost Andrew Leigh, and the fact that this has happened in international waters, doesn’t that now bring us close to where we need to start taking a position on this?
Leigh:
Well, Iran has been striking out at other countries. It’s attempted to strike 11 countries through the course of this conflict just in the last 72 hours, including Türkiye. So the conflict certainly has been spreading. It’s a reminder that war is inherently chaotic and also that the tragedies are on all sides. We’re talking about young lives here. As the father of 3 boys, you know, I’m very aware of the human toll that this takes and very hopeful that it comes to an end as soon as possible.
Solly:
Alright, let’s talk about another issue and that’s the – earlier this week, there was an unveiling of a new community battery in – which suburb was it? Dickson!
Leigh:
Dickson!
Solly:
Yes, in Dickson. Yes, just down the road from us here at the ABC Canberra Breakfast show. What’s the take‑up been like here Andrew Leigh in the ACT? And I asked on the morning – the person who was responsible for it, what the chances are of expanding and what other suburbs could sort of get in on this act. What’s the plan?
Leigh:
So, we’ve got those medium‑sized batteries Ross, and then a lot of Canberrans are getting home batteries themselves. So, 4,500 Canberrans have chosen cheaper home batteries. The top suburbs include Dunlop, Macgregor, Watson, Lyneham, Calwell, Chisholm, and Gilmore. So, we’re seeing a whole lot of Canberra households choosing to bottle sunshine and bring down the cost of their bills. That’s good for the energy network and it’s also good for people’s cost of living.
We know that the growth of home batteries across the country is going to matter for climate action, but it’s also going to help put long‑term downward pressure on one of the significant costs for households.
Solly:
It is a big initiative and I know that Canberrans will lead the nation, as they often do in these sorts of things in taking up these opportunities. Andrew Leigh, I need to let you go so you can go and welcome the Canadian Prime Minister. And I understand you’re taking the Canberra Carneys as well, or some of them into the gallery as well to celebrate the occasion, is that right?
Leigh:
That’s right. So Jan Carney contacted me and said she was trying to get together a posse of Carney’s in order to welcome the Canadian PM. I’m not sure whether or not she’s been able to make that happen through the Canadian High Commission, but very happy that she’ll be in the gallery herself to enjoy what I think is going to be an important speech by a very significant world leader. Any time there’s an economist leading a country, you’ve got to be happy.
Solly:
Well, I’ll leave that to the listeners to decide! Andrew Leigh, good to chat with you as always. Thank you.
Leigh:
Thanks Ross.
Solly:
That’s Andrew Leigh. He is the Member for Fenner and the Assistant Minister for Competition on the ABC Canberra Breakfast show.