Ross Solly:
Some time ago you would have heard the news that the federal government is going to convene a roundtable to look at our economic future and how to increase productivity et cetera, et cetera. They’re bringing together some of the greatest minds from a lot of different fields across the nation.
Well now we’ve learned that ahead of that the ACT Government – in collaboration with our federal MPs, are going to bring together a similar roundtable involving ACT businesses, unions, industry groups et cetera, et cetera. So what sort of things will be on the table? What sort of questions are going to be asked?
Andrew Leigh is the Member for Fenner and joins us on the show this morning. Andrew Leigh, good morning to you.
Andrew Leigh:
Good morning Ross. Great to be with you.
Solly:
And with you. Can I just – Andrew Leigh, totally off topic here, but the sad news this morning – and I know you would have dealt quite a lot with Peter Ryan in your role in various finance portfolios. But the news this morning that Peter Ryan has sadly passed away just weeks after leaving the ABC. I know you’ve dealt with Peter Ryan in the past, but what sort of experiences did you have with him?
Leigh:
He was certainly somebody who was a giant of the business reporting arm of the ABC. And you know, the ABC is a national treasure, as was Peter Ryan. He had that stint working in Washington DC, and a really respected voice, somebody who brought a lot to a national conversation. I think we do business reporting really well here in Australia, and a lot of that is part of great journalists like Peter. Of course, a Walkley Award winner, a real lion of the Australian journalism pantheon.
Solly:
And can I just say this about Peter Ryan. My own experience with him – no matter how stupid the questions, he was always willing to give time to give a sensible answer. And I threw my fair share of stupid questions to Peter over the years, and he was always very, very kind. Adrian in Moncrieff says, ‘It’s so sad to hear about Peter Ryan’s passing. While I’ve never met him, listening to him during every AM, the World Today and PM as the business correspondent, to give the great advice explaining it for everyone to understand and keeping us up‑to‑date with the latest happenings during these turbulent years in the markets. It hit me to hear about his passing today. Hope all ABC staff look after yourselves today and know how much you become part of many random people’s lives.’ Thank you, Adrian. That’s a lovely message. And yes, he did touch a lot of people here at the ABC.
Andrew Leigh, so you’re now going to bring together an ACT form of this federal roundtable. Who’s going to be invited, and what sort of things are you looking for?
Leigh:
Well, it will be a broad cross‑section of the Canberra business community, unions and the public sector. What we’ll be aiming to do is to get together a lot of those ACT ideas about productivity. Of course, we’ve got a national challenge in productivity. The decade up to 2020 was the worst productivity decade in the post‑war era. And when we came to office we had the worst quarterly fall in productivity in 45 years. So this isn’t going to be turned around quickly. That’s why we need to bring together as many good ideas and perspectives as we can. Canberra’s business structure is a bit different from other states and territories, a bit less manufacturing and mining, a little bit more services and some of those services that are serving the international community. So I think we have a lot to bring to the productivity conversation.
Solly:
Yeah I mean, we do have some fairly unique situations – circumstances here compared to other jurisdictions. Does that lessen our relevance in terms of the overall approach to what we could be doing federally?
Leigh:
Not in the least. Indeed, the work we’re doing trying to make sure that we have a more productive public sector is work where Canberra can bring particular insights. Katy Gallagher of course, has been working a lot around – in her role as the minister responsible for the public service in ensuring not only that we have the new values of stewardship but also that the public service is making effective use of new technology, such as artificial intelligence, to deliver better for Australians.
One of the issues we had in the last election was this discussion over the proposal to slash the public sector from the Coalition. And I think the way in which that was resoundingly rejected at the ballot box does reflect the strong support that Australians have for effective public services and the public servants that deliver them.
Solly:
Yeah. You will probably get though, if you get members of the business community – we’re going to get a response later on from the business community to what sort of things they might bring to the table. There’s a bit of a feeling here in the ACT that, you know, that we’re overtaxed and underserviced just to put it bluntly. And that maybe given the amount of taxes that are paid that we should be getting better services and that businesses should be getting more support.
Do you think that’s justified and, Andrew Leigh, a lot of that is out of your control because it’s up to the ACT Government to work the levers on that one. But can you influence ACT Government policy if enough people are telling you of their dissatisfaction with the level of service and the approach of the government?
Leigh:
Well, certainly we have a strong dialogue between the federal and the ACT representatives here, and the 4 federal representatives got together with the ACT ministry the other day to talk through some of these challenges and how we work most effectively together. You look at an area like insurance tax and stamp duty reform where the ACT is leading the nation and there are reforms being implemented by the ACT are those that the business sector is encouraging other states around the country to follow with. So, I think there is strong public policy leadership in the area of state and territory tax reform coming out of the Barr government right here.
Solly:
This text, ‘If the ACT and federal governments want to increase productivity, they need to stop investing in projects that have a negative return on investment. And they need to stop ignoring advice and concerns from the Auditor‑General.’ I guess that’s a bit of a sign of some of the frustration here. There’s also frustration over some of the secrecy involved as well. I mean, Andrew Leigh, is part of the way to encourage greater collaboration is to avoid that secrecy and to be more open about some of the projects that you’re doing and the cost involved?
Leigh:
You certainly need to be looking quite carefully at the costs and benefits of any project. And I know in the area of infrastructure, when we came to office there was a blizzard of infrastructure press releases, a whole lot of things had been announced but very little was getting done. As the Prime Minister likes to say, you can’t drive on a press release, and so we went through and very methodically identified which projects needed to go ahead based on the cost‑benefit analysis. You know, if you have a snapshot approach to productivity Ross, I think about it as 3 things: investing in individuals, investing in infrastructure and investing in institutions. And that approach guides my way of thinking about productivity as the assistant minister responsible for productivity.
Solly:
Can I ask you what your – I mean, I know what you’re going to say on this, but David Pocock on this show on many occasions has accused the Barr government of sitting on its hands in terms of utilising programs that are made available by the Commonwealth in terms of, you know, mounting a good, strong case for projects for the feds to get involved with here in Canberra.
I mean, the Barr government – the Labor Party here, has been in power for a long, long time Andrew Leigh. Do you think it needs a bit of a kick up the pants here and to be a bit more focused and to work a bit harder? I mean, I know you’re going to say no. Everything is hunky‑dory and you’ve got this great relationship. But David Pocock says he’s hearing this from so many organisations, that the Labor Party here are slow to act and that they don’t get the benefits that they are perhaps entitled to or should be getting from the Commonwealth.
Leigh:
I think you just have to look at the facts there Ross. An infrastructure pipeline here in the ACT which is unprecedented, the investment in the national security precinct, the work that’s going on with the War Memorial, the huge investments that are being made by the Commonwealth right across the board. You know, there has never been a Commonwealth government that has as much commitment to Canberra as the Albanese government. And that’s just clear from the infrastructure investments that exist there. That hasn’t happened by accident – that’s happened through strong advocacy from the Barr government for good projects in the national capital.
But from the moment we came to office we set about getting rid of the arbitrary public service cap, we set about ensuring that the ACT is respected. And even just yesterday when the Prime Minister was speaking to new members of parliament, he was talking about the virtues of Canberra. You would not have got that under any of the 3 Liberal Prime Ministers that preceded him. So that strong advocacy for Canberra starts from the top of the federal government.
Solly:
One of the texts – before I let you go – this listener says, ‘Australia should stop fooling itself about improving productivity. Manufacturing is in decline. We hardly make anything here any more. Almost everything is made in China. Other than mining, there little investment in the economy and there’s a huge growth in low‑paid service industries, for example, age and disability care, populated by people on visas.’ What are your thoughts on that, Andrew Leigh?
Leigh:
Well, manufacturing jobs have changed. We don’t make kids pajamas and school shoes any longer, but we do a lot of high‑advanced manufacturing. Whether that’s in areas like pharmaceuticals or defence in areas like drones. There’s a move up the value chain in our manufacturing jobs. There’s huge amounts of services exports – the higher education and finance and health has been an important part of what we sell to the rest of the world. And so, the economy evolves and policy needs to keep up with that.
That’s why we’re so enthusiastic about this productivity roundtable that will take place in the cabinet room next month and holding these preliminary roundtables around particular sectors and particular regions just in order to capture all the best ideas on productivity and so we can get the engine of growth running as well as possible.
Solly:
Andrew Leigh, good to chat with you this morning. Thank you.
Leigh:
Thanks, Ross.
Solly:
That’s Dr Andrew Leigh, the Labor Member for Fenner on ABC Canberra.