Ross Solly:
Well, let’s go to Andrew Leigh. He is the Member for Fenner and I’m sure he shares some of the frustrations about all of this. Good morning to you, Dr Andrew Leigh.
Andrew Leigh:
Good morning Ross, great to be with you.
Solly:
Yeah. And we will talk about immigration in just a moment. But do you have an answer, Andrew Leigh, what do you say to your constituents who I’m sure say to you, ‘Why is it that we’re paying more in petrol here in Canberra than they are across the border in Queanbeyan? And is there anything that the Feds can do to rein it in here in Canberra?’
Leigh:
There’s been a number of reports that have been done on this by the ACCC. The main finding is we don’t have as much retail competition. It did find more concentration here. So, there’s 4 major brands that control 76 per cent of Canberra petrol sites, according to the last report, and we have the smallest share of independents and minor brand retailers. So if you travel through Sydney, for example, you see a lot more minor brand petrol stations, promoting more competition in the petrol market.
Solly:
But is the problem that we can’t attract independent providers because, as Rowan just said, the taxes are too high here or the land prices are too high here and that frightens the independent providers off?
Leigh:
Look, I don’t know why it’s been that we haven’t been able to get those independents coming in here. Some of it could be scale. They’re obviously going to be attracted first to the biggest cities in Australia.
One of the other things the ACCC has noted is that the price cycle tends to not be as large in amplitude in Canberra as it is in some of the other capitals. And so that means that Sydney and Melbourne’s best prices are a lot better than Canberra’s best prices. Their worst prices can sometimes be worse than ours. So, we don’t get those swings and roundabouts in the same way as Sydney and Melbourne tend to.
Solly:
Yeah, FuelRadar apparently, according to one of our listeners, does have us as the highest paying capital for diesel at 289.28. And this listener, Andrew Leigh, says ‘40 cents a litre difference for diesel between Canberra and Queanbeyan. It’s actually cheaper in Cobar. I don’t buy any of the arguments it’s blatant gouging’. I mean, is there price gouging going on? We’ve talked about price gouging in so many areas, Andrew Leigh, and it’s been a crusade of yours for some time. But do you think there is some price gouging going on for petrol and diesel here in the ACT?
Leigh:
Well, it’s up to the ACCC to make that independent recommendation –
Solly:
Are they looking at it, though? I mean, does it take a complaint to be made to the ACCC to look at it? And if so, has anyone made that complaint that you’re aware of?
Leigh:
People can certainly make complaints to the ACCC, and they’ll follow it up. They also have more data than ever before, which they’re using to monitor this. They have announced an inquiry into diesel prices early on in this fuel crisis, showing their willingness to take action against big fuel retailers. So, it’s an issue that they’re actively working on with better data and better enforcement.
Solly:
Would you like them, as a resident of Canberra, Andrew Leigh, as a resident of Canberra and somebody who I’m sure has to fill up your car occasionally on weekends, would you like the ACCC to have a bit of a look at what’s going on here in Canberra? Because it just can’t be right can it? And there’s so many listeners that are just texting in. They’re not buying any of the excuses. Would you like the ACCC to have a good, long, hard look at what’s going on here in Canberra when it comes to petrol and diesel prices?
Leigh:
They’re heavily monitoring the ACT as they are the rest of the country Ross –
Solly:
But would you like them to have a proper investigation? I know they might be monitoring it, but let’s actually get in and let’s get the tsar or whoever it is out there knocking on some doors and getting a look at some of the paperwork?
Leigh:
Ross, the ACCC has never had more resources to go after fuel price collusion than they do right now –
Solly:
So, you’d like them to do it? Would you like them to do it?
Leigh:
We have given them significant resources. How they deploy those resources is up to them. They are an independent regulator –
Solly:
But you can – as a local member though Andrew Leigh – sorry to jump in, but as a local member you could say, ‘Hey, guys, can you have a look at this, please?’
Leigh:
Ross, they enforce the law. It’s a bit like how the Attorney‑General doesn’t tell the police which crimes to go after. So, there is significant resources. There’s strong laws that we have provided them with. We’ve been very clear about the importance of fuel prices to Australians. We understand the impact that has on cost of living.
Solly:
Alright. Let’s talk about the immigration policies announced yesterday by your government. What’s the problem we’re trying to solve here, Andrew Leigh?
Leigh:
Well, the problem Ross is that we’ve got challenges on housing and that has been largely as a result of Australians moving to fewer people per house, as Tony Burke said in his speech –
Solly:
So, immigration is causing a problem for housing, is it?
Leigh:
Ross, it’s a complicated debate, so let me just talk it through and then let’s dive forward to questions. As Tony Burke made clear in his speech yesterday, we’ve gone from 2.9 people per household to 2.5 people per household. Every 0.1 per cent drop means we need another 450,000 homes. The principal change in that is that Australians are choosing to live with fewer people per household.
But migration has placed some pressures on the system as well. So, this is about calibrating the migration system so it’s right, getting the construction workers so they come in to build the homes we need and ensuring that we’ve got the balance right in terms of the mix of skills, family, migration and the rest.
Solly:
There’s lots of criticisms here. Well, in fact there’s 2 sides, which might suggest maybe you’re getting it right – I don’t know, Andrew Leigh. But there’s one side, obviously, One Nation, and the Libs are saying, you haven’t gone far enough.
But then there’s the other side, employer groups in that who are saying, ‘Hang on a moment, we need these migrants, we need the backpackers, we need these people to come in, otherwise we can’t, you know, sow our crops, we can’t pick our crops. We are going to struggle to get people out here to pick our fruit next year’.
I mean, this is a concern isn’t it, Andrew Leigh, that we’re going to do ourselves in the foot here by reducing the number of, because backpackers seem to be copping a bit here. By reducing them, that we’re going to cause a bit of a problem for ourselves?
Leigh:
We’ve got a couple of categories there, Ross. In terms of skilled migration, one of the things that Minister Burke announced yesterday is priority sectors, which include healthcare, construction, education, education, agriculture, aquaculture and fishing.
In terms of backpackers, the constraints really are in the second year, where Minister Burke is bringing down the numbers by about a fifth, and then in that third year, where there’s a more substantial reduction in backpacker visas. There will still be significant labour available and I think this does illustrate the folly of policies being put forward, for example, by One Nation which will severely smash the regions.
Solly:
Well, some might say that you’re now jumping to the tune of One Nation because they’ve put migration on the radar here and now everybody’s having to jump to their tune.
So, you’re saying to employer groups that they should still be fine, Andrew Leigh, that if they are concerned that they’re not going to have people to pick their crops, et cetera, that they’re not going to have enough people to go out and do those essential services. They need not worry?
Leigh:
There has been a priority placed by our government on skilled migration. We’ve significantly increased the number of construction workers, significantly increased the number of agricultural workers –
Solly:
But it’s the fruit pickers and that sort of thing. That’s what some of the farmers are worried about?
Leigh:
Skilled migrants moving into agriculture are a priority area. In terms of the numbers that are being changed in working holiday makers, that is a change primarily affecting the third year. The slowdown in processing has been stopped, and so people will see those visas being processed faster.
Ross, this is all coming from a government that fundamentally respects the role that migrants have played in Australian society. I’m going to be presiding over a citizenship ceremony this afternoon. It’s one of my favourite things to do as an MP.
So ours is a government that celebrates the value of multiculturalism and understands that we need to get the balance right and not get into the game of demonising migrants which we’ve seen One Nation engage in.
Solly:
Andrew Leigh, just one quick question. A couple of people asking – do politicians actually need to pay for their petrol? Do you pay for your petrol or do you use a government fuel card?
Leigh:
You can do 2 things as a Member of Parliament. You can either have a parliamentary car where the petrol is paid for, or else you can take an allowance. I just simply take the allowance, so then I pay for it directly out of my pocket.
Solly:
But you get an allowance for it, so you get it paid back? The taxpayer pays it back?
Leigh:
It is a flat allowance, regardless of how many kilometres I drive.
Solly:
Righto. Okay, good on you. Dr Andrew Leigh, appreciate your time this morning. Thank you.
Leigh:
Thanks Ross.
Solly:
Dr Andrew Leigh, the Member for Fenner.