Ross Solly:
So, we mentioned this morning to Shane Rattenbury, and you would have heard it in the news yesterday. Georgia Stynes also covered it on the Drive show yesterday. This climate report that came out, the National Climate Risk Assessment, which has now put the government in a tricky position because later this week it will be revealing its own targets, but also how to prepare Australia for what looks like a very, very troubling future climate‑wise. Andrew Leigh is the Member for Fenner, of course, also Assistant Minister for many, many portfolios and joins us this morning. Andrew Leigh, good morning to you.
Andrew Leigh:
Good morning Ross, great to be with you.
Solly:
You’re a father. Does this report worry you?
Leigh:
Yes, it really does. You look at these impacts and realise that the severe weather events that we’ve had – those awful bushfires in 2019–20, Cyclone Alfred, the significant events of flooding, and so on – things are only going to get worse from here. So, we need to invest in adaptation, and most importantly, we need to make sure that Australia is doing its part. And when I hear senior members of the Coalition out there today saying they want to walk away from even Scott Morrison’s minimalist commitment to net zero by 2050, that really scares me for the nation’s future.
Solly:
Well, also some people are scared because your government has just signed up to the expanded Woodside program, which they’re saying just flies in the face of anything we might be doing here in Australia to tackle climate change.
Leigh:
Well, that’s a project which is subject to very severe constraints around it. As you know, the Minister’s decision was based on fairly narrow criteria there over the rock art, and of course, the project itself is subject to the safeguard mechanism, which is a mechanism we put in place in order to make sure that big polluters reduce their emissions.
Solly:
But they are, it is – the project will add to our emissions won’t it?
Leigh:
Australia’s climate emissions are based on what is burnt here; that’s the approach that’s taken. The fugitive emissions that come from a gas plant are taken into account and are regulated through the safeguard mechanism.
Solly:
But it’s still going to increase? I mean, if you’re going to try and balance it off, you’re going to have to find a reduction somewhere else because that project which has a date going for the next 50, 60 years, will increase our emissions?
Leigh:
Well, that project is going to be required to reduce its emissions every year and reach net‑zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. That’s what happens under the safeguard mechanism. It’s got 48 strict conditions, and it will mitigate significant impacts to the rock art, which has been an important issue that we’ve been analysing. The environmental approvals process, though, does need to be updated. We’ve been very clear about that, and Minister Murray Watt has said that he’s going to act on that.
Solly:
So, you don’t think there’s anything incompatible about approving this and then on the next hand saying you’re concerned, Andrew Leigh, about the future for our children and grandchildren with this rather damning report that came out yesterday?
Leigh:
Ross, this project will have to reach zero net emissions by 2050. It will have to reduce its emissions every single year. It has strict conditions around it.
Solly:
Can I ask you about the ANZ fine yesterday? A lot of money. But there’s a lot of anger out there in the community, Andrew Leigh. This is a bank that’s been rapped over the knuckles on more than a few occasions. We’re talking double figures now. Some of the stuff it got accused of doing yesterday, just absolutely outrageous, and I can’t think where in any society, that this would be acceptable. I mean, at what stage do we stop just, you know, throwing a few fines at them and bring in the big stick – or is there a big stick? I mean, there was a national Royal Commission on banking, which basically told all the banks to get their houses in order. It seems ANZ’s just snubbed its nose at that?
Leigh:
Well, this is the biggest penalty that’s been imposed against any single entity. As the ASIC Chair has said, ANZ has betrayed the trust of Australians. A $240 million fine, together with other actions that the government has taken, brings the total penalties proposed and ordered since 2016 up to $310 million. The behaviour was utterly unacceptable. Australians were taken for a ride, and the ANZ’s behaviour in managing the bond deal, in failing to respond to the hardship notices, making false and misleading comments about the savings rate and even failing to refund fees to dead customers. This is appalling behaviour by one of Australia’s biggest banks, and we’ve been very clear that ASIC has done the right thing. We’ve backed in ASIC with its strong action every time it’s taken on financial institutions.
Solly:
It is a big fine, but in comparison to their profits, it’s just a drop in the ocean and now they’re turning around and saying they’re going to get rid of, you know, 3,500 employees. I mean, surely they should take a step back from that, shouldn’t they, Andrew Leigh? Now I mean, I know no bank is there as a charity, and if you have excess workers, fair enough, but talk about not reading the room.
Leigh:
Yeah, I met with ANZ CEO Nuno Matos to talk about his plans for the bank. Clearly, in a capitalist economy banks will make their own decisions about who they employ but, you know, the government is naturally concerned about any planned redundancies and keen to ensure that the bank is making appropriate decisions for the sake of its workforce. You know, it needs social licence to operate. It’s not just there for its shareholders, it’s also there for customers, workers and the broader community.
Solly:
So, do you think the bank manager is not for turning, or do you feel that he heard your concerns?
Leigh:
Look, my sense is that ANZ has a clear plan there, but they will need to do a much better job of articulating that to their workforce and to the Australian community. It comes at a time when ANZ is in the spotlight. It is rightly being scrutinised for its behaviour in the financial markets, for its behaviour towards its customers and also for how it handles its workforce.
Solly:
Andrew Leigh, we’ll need to leave it there. Thank you for your time this morning.
Leigh:
Thanks Ross.
Solly:
That’s Dr Andrew Leigh, the Member for Fenner.