Ross Solly:
So, a new report from the consumer advocacy group CHOICE looking at the prices of various supermarket products has been released today. What does it mean? Where is the best place to get cheap supermarket products? We’ll find out in just a moment. Andrew Leigh is the Assistant Minister for Productivity Competition, Charities and Treasury. He’s also the member for Fenner, and he joins us on the program this morning. Andrew Leigh, good morning to you.
Andrew Leigh:
Good morning Ross, great to be with you.
Solly:
And with you as well. A couple of things first. Where were you 25 years ago today, Andrew Leigh?
Leigh:
So, I was doing my PhD over in Harvard and I remember being down in a basement watching TV with my friend David Madden, the only other Australian who was around – cheering our heads off, surrounded by Americans who were completely bemused as to why we thought this was the greatest moment in human history.
Solly:
Well, I mean they would have just been cheering for Michael Johnson I think, who won gold on the same night. So, it might be good to get one up on the Americans then Andrew Leigh?
Leigh:
But just an amazing moment Ross. Like, you think about what that did for the reconciliation. You know, Cathy Freeman winning that 400 gold really was such a uniting moment for Australia.
Solly:
It was and it truly was I think, a moment that stopped the nation as well. You know, people are telling stories about where they were, what they remember from it, and a lot of people sharing some great memories this morning. Andrew Leigh, last time you were on the – it might have been the last time you were on the program, but certainly recently when you were on this show I asked you about the Ben Roberts‑Smith display and you were very forthright. You said that you thought the whole thing should be taken down. Do you still have that view?
Leigh:
Yeah, it’s up to the War Memorial. Of course, they make these decisions independently. But my personal view is that there are many people who have served Australia with dignity and valor. There are many extraordinary stories to be told. And the War Memorial is only showing the tip of the iceberg. And I don’t think this is the right person to be in the Hall of Valor at that very prestigious place. Pick another one of the many remarkable stories instead.
Solly: Would you be comfortable if, as Peter Stanley suggested, just move it out of the Hall of Valor and maybe put it in the Afghanistan section?
Leigh:
Well, I mean obviously the story of what a small group of soldiers did in Afghanistan is an important part of what we did there. It is important that these stories are told – that Australians understand the involvement of our soldiers in full. You know, we tell the story of Breaker Morant as well. Our involvement in the Boer War wasn’t flawless, so we should do likewise with Afghanistan.
Solly:
Peter Stanley also far from impressed Andrew Leigh, with the new wording – and I don’t know whether you’ve seen it. I don’t know whether you were advised about it before it was unveiled, but Peter Stanley saying it is nowhere near good enough. This is the compromise, the Australian War Memorial saying they were going to update the plaque and basically they’ve just outlined some of the legal detail, but they haven’t gone into detail about what Ben Roberts‑Smith was accused of doing. I mean, have you seen the wording? And are you concerned if Peter Stanley says that it doesn’t go anywhere near far enough?
Leigh:
I have. And again, my personal view is that you would take a different approach. You choose one of the other many VCs, one of the other many remarkable soldiers who’ve served Australians with dignity and valor. There are so many stories the War Memorial could tell. I just don’t think this is the right one to be in that prestigious spot.
Solly:
And the wording – the new wording, does that go far enough on the plaque?
Leigh:
Well, you know my view Ross that it shouldn’t be there and it shouldn’t be there in that place, but the War Memorial will make that decision independently and I very much respect their independence.
Solly:
We are hoping that someone from the War Memorial will come on and talk to us. Maybe you could lean on your old colleague Kim Beazley – the Chair, and see if he can come on and talk to us about it. Let’s talk about the latest review of supermarket prices. Are consumers in Australia getting a good deal Andrew Leigh or not?
Leigh:
We’re certainly working to make sure that’s the case, Ross. We’ve given additional resources to the competition watchdog to crack down on supermarket misconduct. And we’ve got CHOICE doing this quarterly grocery price monitoring. Its latest report suggests that the price gap between Aldi and Woolies and Coles has narrowed. That’s a good thing. Seems to suggest that competition is working here in the ACT. CHOICE’s basket of goods comes in at $54.51 for Aldi. Next up from that is Coles at $56.80, Woolies at $57.60. So, you’re saving somewhere a little bit less than 5 per cent by going to Aldi. And I think that’s why many people are choosing still to do split basket shopping; to do part of the shop at Aldi and part of it at Woolies. And so, competition is good.
Solly:
Do they? Do a lot of people do that?
Leigh:
Yeah. So, one of the fascinating things out of the supermarket report is that almost all Aldis are located within 500 metres of a Woolies or Coles. And I think that reflects a deliberate strategy by Aldi to focus on a portion of the basket, understanding that shoppers will go to a bigger supermarket in order to get the items that Aldi doesn’t stock.
Solly: It sounds like a hassle but I guess, you know, if you can save money it’s worthwhile. But I’m looking here at the prices you’ve just quoted, it’s only a couple of dollars difference. Would it still be worthwhile?
Leigh:
A couple of dollars really adds up, particularly if you’re doing a big family shop. I mean, some people won’t be doing $50 shops, they’ll be doing shops for a couple of hundred dollars. And over the course of the year, that’s pretty important. We’re focusing too on shrinkflation by looking at the Unit Pricing Code right now and whether we need to toughen that up. We’ve been working for the sake of the farmers on getting the mandatory Food and Grocery Code in place. We did that last year over the objections of the Coalition. All of that’s about holding our big supermarkets to account. They’ve got a big market share and I think it’s appropriate the government holds them to account.
Solly:
Andrew Leigh before I let you go, can I also ask you your views on the bosses – the people who are running Optus? Do they need to go?
Leigh:
Look, firms will make their own commercial management decisions. That’s really up to how they sorted out between the shareholders and the board. But Optus I don’t think has handled this well. People have a right to be pretty outraged, and of course it would have been incredibly distressing for those families. Triple zero is a lifeline. You know, you go to triple zero and you get someone. So when that is broken, it must have been extraordinarily distressing for families and these people who lost loved ones.
Solly:
Well, people’s patience must have been stretched though, mustn’t they? Because you’ve had the triple zero thing now. We’ve also had reports yesterday and there was a fine that Optus is now also being pinged for unfairly targeting people to get into their schemes and they’ve been hit with a big fine for that. I mean, goodness gracious, surely someone’s head has to roll here?
Leigh:
Yes. I mean, the $100 million fine for misconduct is one of the biggest fines that’s been put in place. I was pleased to see that that decision was upheld in the courts this week. It certainly is appropriate that Optus is held to account for the marketing decisions that were made. We’ve got work underway to support the Triple Zero Custodian Steering Committee which is bringing together departments and industry in order to make sure the triple zero system works as well as intended. ACMA, the Australian Communications and Media Authority, is looking into this triple zero debacle with Optus as well. So, they are coming under the full force of the government spotlight as a result of this issue.
Solly:
All right Andrew Leigh, appreciate your time this morning. Thank you.
Leigh:
Thank you, Ross.
Solly:
That is Dr Andrew Leigh, who is the Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury. He’s also the Member for Fenner.