Stephen Cenatiempo:
Joining us now to talk federal politics is the Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury and the Member for Fenner, Andrew Leigh. Andrew, good morning.
Andrew Leigh:
Good morning Stephen, great to be with you.
Cenatiempo:
Now, there’s a lot of things we need to get through because it is the first sitting week of parliament for the term. But this delay in implementing Jillian Segal’s recommendations has no – there is no rationale for that whatsoever. And the comments by Jason Clare, ‘Well, we need to wait for this other report on Islamophobia,’ that’s not actually happening, from an envoy that’s not actually doing anything because they haven’t hired any staff. There is no reason why these recommendations can’t be implemented, because they’re not going to affect Islamophobia?
Leigh:
Well, Stephen, we take antisemitism very seriously…
Cenatiempo:
Well, no you don’t. No, you don’t. You say that. Everybody says that, but you don’t. Let’s be honest.
Leigh:
We banned the Nazi salute and hate symbols. There’s penalties of up to a year imprisonment. We’ve invested $4 million in the National Holocaust Remembrance Centre…
Cenatiempo:
Because that’s what the problem is, because that’s going to stop firebombing of synagogues, yeah.
Leigh:
We’ve announced $100 million for countering violent extremism. We’ve passed legislation to criminalise hate speech…
Cenatiempo:
Yeah, how’s that going?
Leigh:
We’ve appointed the first Antisemitism Commissioner, and so that’s an important measure. And we’re working with the states and territories on a national hate crimes and incident database. And our first…
Cenatiempo:
And yet after all that there’s been an increase in antisemitism?
Leigh:
Well, it’s certainly true that passing laws doesn’t eliminate bad behaviour. That’s true of every law we pass, including the murder law.
Cenatiempo:
No, actually enacting – actually upholding the law, letting police arrest people rather than state – and I’ll blame the state governments for this, telling their police, ‘No, no, no, don’t upset the protestors.’
Leigh:
Well we’ve put in place a ban on doxing, which has been a significant issue among the Jewish community. Operation Avalite with the AFP combats acts of antisemitism. We’re providing more resources to investigate antisemitism for the police to crack down on it, and new powers including…
Cenatiempo:
Andrew, let me…
Leigh:
$25 million to improve safety and security…
Cenatiempo:
Okay. I accept all that you’ve talked about all of this. But you appointed a Special Envoy to Combat Antisemitism. Jillian Segal, somebody that’s respected in the Jewish community, who understands this program, puts a comprehensive plan to the government and the government says, ‘Oh, no, we’re not going to act on it.’
Leigh:
Well, we’re doing a range of things with universities. We need to make sure that those fit in together. So that’s simply recognising…
Cenatiempo:
But fit in together with what?
Leigh:
Fitting in together with the other work we’re doing in order to improve student life on campus and to ensure that people are able to go about their business of learning…
Cenatiempo:
But Andrew, that’s not what Jason Clare said. Jason Clare said, ‘We’re not going to implement this because we haven’t got a report on Islamophobia yet.’ There’s no need to wait for a report on Islamophobia because there’s no mosques being firebombed across Australia?
Leigh:
Well, the action we’re taking to combat antisemitism and Islamophobia are complementary in some cases. In other cases, they involve distinct pieces of work. These are significant challenges across the community. I speak regularly to Jewish and Muslim constituents, and I know both are feeling significantly under pressure from the killings in the Middle East. Australia today has joined 24 other countries in making a statement condemning the killing of civilians seeking aid in Gaza. We’re standing alongside countries such as Britain, Canada and New Zealand, France in making that statement.
Cenatiempo:
So you’re acting on information that’s coming from a terrorist organisation rather than believing our democratic partner in the Middle East?
Leigh:
We have very clear information that civilians, while waiting for food have been killed.
Cenatiempo:
Yeah, which is coming from Hamas. The information is coming from Hamas.
Leigh:
I don’t think it’s correct, Stephen to say that no‑one is being killed while awaiting food.
Cenatiempo:
That’s not what I said. I said the information is coming from a terrorist organisation, and you’re choosing to believe that over our democratic partner in the Middle East.
Leigh:
The deaths of people awaiting humanitarian aid have been independently verified.
Cenatiempo:
By who? By who?
Leigh:
And that’s why 25 countries have signed a statement calling for an end to the war in Gaza.
Cenatiempo:
By who? By who, Andrew?
Leigh:
By independent international organisations. It is…
Cenatiempo:
Who? Name one of them.
Leigh:
It is unambiguous that there are civilians…
Cenatiempo:
Well, how is it unambiguous if you can’t even tell me who’s making the reports?
Leigh:
Stephen, I don’t think any credible observer would think that what is happening right now in Gaza is acceptable. Women, children, innocent civilians are being killed while awaiting aid.
Cenatiempo:
Yeah, they’re being used as shields by terrorist organisations.
Leigh:
Australia condemned that, as we condemned the October 7th attacks. We need a two‑state solution in the Middle East, and Australia has been working with our international partners to achieve that. We’re not a central player in the Middle East, but it is important that we add our voice to the calls for a humanitarian ceasefire.
Cenatiempo:
So why is it more important and why are the calls for Israel to stop what it’s doing louder than the condemnation of the Hamas terrorist attacks on the 7th of October 2023? Because they’ve been far louder. It was the mealy‑mouthed responses from our government after the 7th of October were absolutely appalling.
Leigh:
Stephen, I think it’s a mistake to think that you need to pick sides in this conflict. I spoke in parliament on the October 7th…
Cenatiempo:
Well no, it is important to pick sides. You pick the side of the good guys, not the terrorists. It’s as simple as that.
Leigh:
Stephen, we have always spoken out in favour of peace in the Middle East. The killings of civilians on October 7 were abhorrent. The killings of people while awaiting aid in Gaza right now are similarly abhorrent. One doesn’t need to pick sides on either of these things. These are both cases in which it is important that Australia stands for the values that Australians believe in, of tolerance, of peace, of a two‑state solution which provides a lasting peace in the Middle East and an end to the killings.
Cenatiempo:
All right, let’s talk about other issues, because there are other things that we’ve got on the list to talk about. The first sitting week of parliament since the election. Sussan Ley has said that tax is going to be the Coalition’s first major battle ground here. And given the utterings coming out of, you know, leaked reports et cetera, that the government is looking at increasing taxes, I think that’s a fair call, isn’t it?
Leigh:
Well, what we’ve said is we’re going to have an Economic Reform Roundtable. We’re aiming to avoid the rule in, rule out game which has dominated so much of Australian politics. Our main focus on tax, as you know, Stephen – we’ve spoken about this before – has been on the petroleum resource rent tax and on multinational taxation. But we have an open door and an open mind. Some of these changes may involve a whole a lot of different public policy settings. We need…
Cenatiempo:
How many taxes will be reduced? Because as we know, I mean, these roundtables are just, really, to actually – as a show trial for decisions that have already been made. How many small businesses are going to be invited to these roundtables?
Leigh:
We’ll have representatives from COSBOA there, and…
Cenatiempo:
No, I said how many small businesses.
Leigh:
Well, the discussion that is taking place in the cabinet room is largely involving peak bodies. It will include a representive from COSBOA. The discussions in the preparatory sessions, such as the Productivity Roundtable in the ACT that Katy Gallagher and I are organising will involve a range of individual businesses.
Cenatiempo:
Okay.
Leigh:
What we’re aiming to…
Cenatiempo:
All right, well, I’ll congratulate you on that.
Leigh:
You’ve started on tax before Stephen.
Cenatiempo:
No, no.
Leigh:
It is important to say that we delivered 3 rounds of income tax cuts in our first term in parliament. So, we have a pretty good record of lowering income tax.
Cenatiempo:
Yeah, but I’m talking about small businesses here. And I’m glad you are inviting small businesses to the ACT Roundtable because they are screaming for tax reform, and particularly here in the ACT where small businesses are falling over hand over fist.
Leigh:
We’re strongly supportive of small businesses. We’ve done an awful lot for small businesses through our competition agenda in the first term. A lot of that is about making sure that small businesses aren’t competing against the big end of town with one hand tied behind their back. The merger changes, National Competition Policy – all of that is focused on getting small business growing again. And the ban on non‑compete clauses for low‑ and middle‑income workers will allow small businesses that are starting up and growing to hire more staff.
Cenatiempo:
While we’re talking productivity – which I just find extraordinary that, you know, it’s taken this long to talk about it. The Queensland Treasurer of the state says the states are doing the heavy lifting here. I think that’s a fair call here. And calls from the Treasurer and from the Prime Minister for business to actually do the heavy lifting here, business has been doing the heavy lifting forever and a day. Isn’t it time for the government to do something?
Leigh:
Well the government is doing a lot, but we certainly know that business investment has been lower than we’d like it to be. We’d like to create those conditions that enable businesses to thrive and grow. We’re engaging with states and territories, and we do that without partisan politics in mind. The work that the Prime Minister is doing on housing with states and territories includes Labor and Coalition states, and we understand that that work has to involve the local councils as well if we’re going to build the homes we need in order to house Australians.
Cenatiempo:
Andrew, I know that there’s other things we could touch on here and look, I half apologise because you just happen to be the government representative that’s on today, and I do throw a lot of things at you that are probably more aptly thrown at some of your colleagues. But I always do appreciate that you front up and answer the questions regardless.
Leigh:
Always a pleasure to chat Stephen, thank you.
Cenatiempo:
Good on you Andrew, thanks mate. Andrew Leigh is the Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury.