Stephen Cenatiempo:
Andrew Leigh is the Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury, and the Member for Fenner. Andrew, good morning.
Andrew Leigh:
Good morning Stephen, great to be with you.
Cenatiempo:
I want to talk to you about – I’ve seen some media around this week about a crackdown on shrinkflation. Look, we know why shrinkflation happens because things are more expensive to produce, and you can either put the price up or reduce the quantities. How do you crack down on this?
Leigh:
Well, a number of ways, Stephen. As you’ve said, shrinkflation is when you discover that the packet size has shrunk but the price has stayed the same. And right now, there’s no obligation to tell customers when that happens. We’re consulting on changes to the Unit Pricing Code of Conduct, one of which would require supermarkets to tell shoppers if that’s happened, if there’s been a package size change that’s adverse to them – where the packet has shrunk but the price hasn’t shrunk. Some of the other changes…
Cenatiempo:
But Andrew, let me just stop you there for a moment. The size of – the weight or the contents of the packet is clearly part of our – it’s already law that you’ve got to print that on the packet, isn’t?
Leigh:
It is. But not all of us are staring at every price, every time, at every shop. And what happens with shrinkflation is the sneaky shrinking down of the pack size, the confectionery that shrinks, the chips that shrink. We’ve even seen instances of toilet paper squares getting smaller and detergent getting less concentrated.
And so, when that happens, one of the proposals we’re consulting on is whether you’d be required for some period of time to tell shoppers that that’s happened, and so they can potentially make a decision to switch to a different product. We’re also looking at whether we might extend the Unit Pricing Code to other retailers, whether we might want to increase the penalties that are in place for breaches of the Unit Pricing Code, and whether we can do better in ensuring that there’s consistent labelling.
Cenatiempo:
How is that? Because at the moment, the unit pricing is, you know, if you go into a supermarket there’s generally a tag on the shelf that says, you know, this one is so much per 100 grams, or, you know, or whatever the quantity is. So, you can get an idea of, you know, if you’ve got 2 different size packets, which one is actually better value, what are you going to change?
Leigh:
Yeah, sometimes those comparisons aren’t apples with apples. Some products can be per 100 grams, others can be per kilos. We’re looking at whether we need to do a bit more to standardise that. There’s been concerns over the size of the labelling on the shelf and then of course, the penalties that are behind it. We’re looking at whether we need to beef those up. So, all of that is about making sure that shoppers get a fair deal at the checkout and people aren’t having the wool pulled over their eyes by shrinkflation.
Cenatiempo:
You know, there’s one sure‑fire way to fix all of this. Bring electricity prices down, and therefore companies don’t need to shrinkflate for lack of…
Leigh:
Well, I mean, investing in zero marginal cost renewables is the best way of doing that. According to the CSIRO…
Cenatiempo:
It’s not working. It’s not working.
Leigh:
That’s the recommendation from them. I mean, they’ve gone through the various levelised costs of electricity. Nuclear is at the top, solar to the bottom. That’s why we’re investing in getting solar there because it’s the cheapest form of electricity.
And we’re also doing a lot in the supermarket space. As you know Stephen, we’ve talked before about the additional resources to the ACCC, about the increased penalties for wrongdoing and about the work we’ve done for farmers through the Food and Grocery Code. We’re doing a lot to hold the supermarkets to account because Aussies want a fair deal at the checkout.
Cenatiempo:
Ok. I think as we’ve discussed in the past, I think you’re pointing the bone at the wrong area here. Now, David Pocock and some people are surprised that he’s the one that’s come out and said this – he says the government’s got no plan for immigration. Given that, you know, the government promised in the lead‑up to the election to cut immigration numbers, particularly with foreign students.
Now we’ve seen overall immigration numbers go up, we’ve seen the number of foreign students go up. We’ve seen no real plan to increase the stock of housing. It’s obviously impacting people, as we saw a whole bunch of people marching largely about this on Sunday. What is the government’s plan for immigration, given that everything you promised before the election has turned out not to be true?
Leigh:
Well, we’ve decreased migration numbers significantly since the record highs when we came to office under the Morrison government. That’s about getting the migration flows in check and also ensuring that we’ve got the right balance across the skilled family reunion and refugee categories.
Cenatiempo:
But it’s not happening Andrew.
Leigh:
It is happening Stephen. The migration numbers are substantially down from the record highs we inherited when we came to Office. I noticed that David Pocock’s comments have been applauded by Advance Australia. I think it’s dangerous territory he’s walking into there.
The government has a very clear plan on migration. We’ve been very clear about the value of our tolerant multicultural democracy. We’ve engaged extensively with the community on the changes that we’ve made, particularly reining in some of those student numbers, so that’s a clear plan that the government has. We’re working and engaging with the community
Cenatiempo:
Andrew, good to talk to you. We will catch up again in a couple of weeks.
Leigh:
Likewise, thanks.
Cenatiempo:
Andrew Leigh, the Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury. Look, I will give Andrew credit; he always is passionate about defending the talking points, but the reality is we’ve seen immigration numbers remain at record highs and no real plan. I think David Pocock – and it’s not often I’d agree with David Pocock – but I think he’s right here.