Stephen Cenatiempo:
It’s time to talk federal politics with the Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury, and the Member for Fenner, Andrew Leigh. Andrew, good morning.
Andrew Leigh:
Good morning Stephen, great to be with you.
Cenatiempo:
And to you too. You’re giving a speech at the Sydney Institute today believe?
Leigh:
Yes, my fourth time speaking to the Sydney Institute, and this time talking about non‑compete clauses – clauses that shackle one in 5 workers to their jobs and make it tougher for the people to get a pay rise.
Cenatiempo:
Andrew, you’ve been talking about this since the election. Is there anything being done about it?
Leigh:
Yes, there is. So, we’re banning non‑competes for people earning under $183,000, which is 9 out of 10 workers, and that will…
Cenatiempo:
Why 183 and not 180 or 190? How do you get to that figure?
Leigh:
Yeah, great question. It’s a standard benchmark in the Fair Work Act: the high‑income earner threshold. And so that’s already there in legislation and it kicks in for a range of other things. It seemed a straightforward way of drawing the line. We’re looking at how we’d handle non‑compete clauses above that range, but certainly below it we think that there’s no place for non‑competes. And so, we’ll have that legislation in the parliament before long. But we’ve just closed consultation. We’ve got some really shocking stories, you know, a graduate engineer on $63,000 that couldn’t work anywhere in the state. A health worker on $80,000 who had a non‑compete with no end date at all covering all of Australia and New Zealand. So, you know, there’s some pretty shocking clauses being put on employees.
Cenatiempo:
Okay. What are you doing in this legislation, though, to protect intellectual property? Because, you know, I think about this industry here for instance and, you know, I mean, I guess we’re a little bit different to say, a hairdresser or, you know, somebody working in a retail job or whatever. But there are instances where somebody can be built up by a company only to leave and take that skill and expertise somewhere else. How do you protect businesses in this area?
Leigh:
Yeah, excellent point. Look, a non‑compete is the bluntest tool in the shed when it comes to protecting secrets. So, we’ve got intellectual property law, confidentiality agreements and non‑disclosure clauses. You don’t need a non‑compete to keep the recipe to Coca Cola safe. Non‑competes are effectively shackling workers and they’re a pretty ineffective way of holding on to secrets. If something really is a secret, then you wouldn’t want someone to divulge it 6 months later. And, you know, indefinite non‑competes of course, aren’t valid.
Cenatiempo:
Now, I want to touch on something else. So far as I could tell, you were the only one of your – you know, most of the government members were silly, were smart enough to just stay away from this and let the Liberal Party self‑destruct. You decided to weigh into this Jacinta Price argument, and I saw you on Sky News suggesting that her comments were racist. There was nothing racist about them. She said that 85 per cent of Indians voted Labor at the last election, when the polling bears out. So, I mean, if I call one of your voters a Labor voter, am I racist now?
Leigh:
Look, I think you’re verballing me on that interview Stephen. I was very careful in choosing my words as I always am. I didn’t believe it was appropriate to bring racial characterisations into our immigration program. We got rid of that when we scrapped the White Australia policy, and I don’t think it’s a good idea to bring it back. The Indian Australian community makes a wonderful contribution. I was in Bonner with the Indian Australian Multicultural Sports Association at the end of the Friendship Cup where the Rajasthan Royals on Sunday afternoon…
Cenatiempo:
But I don’t think anybody’s suggesting that they don’t?
Leigh:
Well, I think there certainly was a sense among the Indian community in Canberra that Senator Price’s comments were having a real effect. I spoke to one of the Indian community leaders who said that people were being abused in supermarkets – something that he linked directly to Senator Price’s comments. This sort of language has real consequences for real people in supermarkets in Australia. This is a young Indian couple with their kids being abused in a way in which the community believes was tied to Senator Price’s comments.
Cenatiempo:
But I mean, how? See, here’s a point: as somebody who comes from an ethnic community, I hate this term ‘ethnic community leaders’ because most of them are self‑appointed. They don’t actually represent the communities they say they do. And, you know, just because one person decides that they’re going to make a political firestorm out of comments that somebody else makes doesn’t mean the rest of the community believes that. I hate this lumping – you know, I mean, what you’re doing here is doing exactly what you’re accusing Jacinta Price is, of lumping everybody in together. I reckon Indian Australians are probably individuals like the rest of us.
Leigh:
Not the least Stephen. I’m just making the comment that when senior leaders disparage members of ethnic communities in Australia that that has a consequence on the ground. Now, we saw people being abused when George Brandis said people had a right to be a bigot. That had direct consequences in terms of an upsurge in racism. We don’t need that sort of behaviour happening in our communities. Why don’t need senior leaders permissioning it.
Cenatiempo:
Well, I just – you know, I find it extraordinary that a Labor member of parliament thinks it’s disparaging to call somebody a Labor voter.
Leigh:
Senator Price’s comments went well beyond that and had real consequences in the community.
Cenatiempo:
Okay, well…
Leigh:
I was on TV yesterday with another Coalition senator who was saying that the rise in crime in Melbourne was down to an increase in migration. It’s factually untrue. There’s been a decrease in migration, and there are many complicated causes of crime. It doesn’t help…
Cenatiempo:
But hang on. How has there been a decrease when the government has maintained the permanent migration rate at the same level that it was prior to the election after going to the election saying that you were going to lower it?
Leigh:
Migration numbers are down 37 per cent since we came to office. We have significantly reduced migration since the record highs under the Morrison government. We’ll work to bring that program under control because we understand the importance of having a well balanced migration programs for community cohesion. But 9 out of 10 Australians believe multiculturalism is a good thing for Australia, and we should be celebrating our migrants…
Cenatiempo:
Most people don’t know what multiculturalism is.
Leigh:
Well, yesterday, I was at a citizenship ceremony in the Margaret Whitlam Pavilion at the Arboretum, one of the things I enjoy most about the job. That’s multiculturalism at work…
Cenatiempo:
But hang on. No, no, it’s not. That’s…
Leigh:
…Australian citizens.
Cenatiempo:
That’s cosmopolitanism at work. This is the point – we keep misnaming these things. Cosmopolitanism is what we all want. Multiculturalism is creating all these silos where we’re separated from each other. We need to start calling this out.
Leigh:
Well Stephen, you might be one of the one in 10 Australians who don’t believe multiculturalism has been a success, and that’s absolutely your right.
Cenatiempo:
No, no, no. You know, but, again, you’re verballing me. What I’m saying is you’re calling it the wrong thing. I’m all in favour of cosmopolitanism, and I come from an ethnic background and I understand that a vibrant cosmopolitan culture is important in Australia. Multiculturalism is about separating people, but we don’t tell the truth about that.
Leigh:
Stephen, I think what we need to do is to recognise the value that people bring both as individuals and as communities. So, if people want to celebrate ethnic holidays together as communities, I think that’s a fantastic thing. You don’t have to give up your previous culture when you come to Australia, just as no‑one asks someone who’s getting married to disavow their parents. Australia is richer for having that multiplicity of cultures, and the multicultural festival – Canberra’s biggest festival, I think is a real testament to that.
Cenatiempo:
Well, I love being – as an ethnic Australian love being lectured by a non‑ethnic Australian about ethnicity. Andrew, good to talk to you. We’ll catch up again in a couple of weeks.
Leigh:
Thanks Stephen, chat soon.
Cenatiempo:
Andrew Leigh, the Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury.