Stephen Cenatiempo:
Alright let’s talk federal politics with the Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury, and the Member for Fenner, Andrew Leigh. Andrew, good morning.
Andrew Leigh:
Good morning, Stephen. I’m surprised. I thought you’d be going for the former 2CC host as leader of the Canberra Liberals.
Cenatiempo:
I call it how I see it Andrew, and I imagine the more sensible people on your side of politics know that without a viable Opposition, you’re not going to be the best government you can be either.
Leigh:
That’s right, certainly a good Opposition is essential to democracy. And yes, sadly at a federal and ACT level, the Liberals are more concerned about themselves than about the people.
Cenatiempo:
Yeah, it’s one of those things that will annoy the electorate more than anything is when you talk about yourself and not about them. And you know, if we look at what’s going on federally at the moment, all of the focus is on net zero. And now I imagine you and I are going to disagree on the policy of net zero, but all of the polling says it’s not even registering with voters. They’re worried about cost of living, cost of living, cost of living.
Leigh:
Well, it’s become a proxy as to whether you’re serious about climate change and you know, of course, people know that Scott Morrison put in place the net zero policy in October 2021 alongside over 70 per cent of the world’s GDP and emissions, every business group in Australia and every state and territory. So, you are stepping a long way outside the mainstream when you’re against net zero.
Cenatiempo:
But isn’t that the problem with this debate that it has become a proxy for action on climate change because it’s not – even you’ve got to admit there’s more than one way to skin a cat?
Leigh:
Oh, absolutely. But you know, I’m speaking to a Minerals Council of Australia event on Thursday and the mining industry is committed to net zero. You know, this is hardly a far‑left communist plot; this is a mainstream policy accepted by conservatives in countries like Britain, Germany and New Zealand, and which…
Cenatiempo:
Well, Britain’s abandoning it.
Leigh:
Britain may be changing particular targets, but they’re committed to net zero and the broad net zero targets around the world are locked into policy.
Cenatiempo:
But Andrew, surely. The problem I have with it is even on the – let’s talk Australia, the government’s own modelling, you’re not going to be able to achieve the target, so isn’t it better to say, look we want to bring emissions down, but it’s no point legislating a target that you can’t get to?
Leigh:
No, we’re on track for our emissions reductions. We’ve got a huge amount of solar coming on stream. I was at the opening of the Casey community battery yesterday, which is part of ensuring that we’ve got that grid stability that’s important for renewables. We’re moving along with the rest of the world in tackling climate change, and long‑term that’s going to bring power prices down as well.
Cenatiempo:
I want to talk about honesty in politics for a moment. The Prime Minister was very quick to whip out his stunt Medicare card in the lead‑up to the election, and I noticed that the language is slightly changed now when he does his TikTok videos, that this should be all you need when you go to the GP. We know in Canberra that’s not going to be the case. When do we admit that and say that here in the ACT, we’re never going to be 100 per cent bulk billed?
Leigh:
Well, I was at the Scullin Medical Practice the other day which is a result of our incentives has now moved to 100 per cent bulk billing. There will be 3 new pure bulk billing practices in the ACT, and we’ve had 9 practices across the ACT saying that they’ll look to shift towards bulk billing. You’re certainly spot on, Stephen. This has been a big problem in the ACT. We’ve had one of the lower bulk billing rates in the country, and we’ve got to do more.
So, we’ve got now the bulk billing incentive for every patient and then the practice incentive on top of that for practices that will go 100 per cent bulk billing and on our numbers, it is financially lucrative for many practices in the ACT to switch to being pure bulk billing practices.
Cenatiempo:
But Andrew when do we admit that you and I, and let’s use us as an example, we don’t need to be bulk billed. There are many people that do. But I mean, my GP practice charges me a gap fee for about 40 bucks – 45 bucks, something like that which is not particularly onerous for me or somebody on your salary. When are we going to admit that this needs to be a two‑tier system?
Leigh:
Universal healthcare is important because if I get sick and I don’t bother going to the doctor, that’s more likely that I’ll infect my co‑workers, so there’s a public benefit to people going to the doctor, and that’s true whether they’re rich or poor.
Cenatiempo:
Yes, but on a parliamentary salary, 40 bucks isn’t going to stop you from going to the doctor?
Leigh:
It would certainly make you think twice, and if you’re going to go to the doctor, get a treatment that stops other people from getting sick, then that’s got a benefit to society. That’s why societies around the world subsidise health. It’s why, in many places, people are able to go to the doctor without a gap fee. Australia has a fantastic health system, but we do have some of the bigger gap costs across the OECD, and so that’s why we’ve made bulk billing a central plank of our health policy.
Cenatiempo:
I want to talk about something that happened in New South Wales last week, or earlier in the week, and that was these Neo‑Nazis parading outside Parliament House. I, when I was on leave the week before last, attended an antisemitism seminar that one of your former colleagues, Mike Kelly was the guest speaker at and he said what I’ve been saying all along is that the federal government has to take some responsibility for its inaction on antisemitism over the last 2 years and that’s what’s emboldening these clowns.
Leigh:
Well, it was this federal government that banned the Nazi salute and Nazi symbols, it was this federal government that put in place the first Antisemitism Commissioner, it was this federal government which has…
Cenatiempo:
Well yeah, but hang on all right, I’ll stop you there. You put in place the first Antisemitism Commissioner and then ignored her recommendations.
Leigh:
No, we’re working through constructively with Jillian Segal. We’re very much valuing the kind of contributions that she has made and the work that we do with her is part of combating antisemitism.
We just celebrated 50 years of the Racial Discrimination Act. It’s the Liberals that have sought to water it down. The Racial Discrimination Act is very much a product of Labor and the work that we’ve done to make sure that people aren’t vilified for their race, religion or faith.
Cenatiempo:
In fairness, the Liberals at every stage have come out and condemned every act of antisemitism in the last 2 years since it’s been rampant, whereas the government’s been quite mealy‑mouthed on it.
Leigh:
Well, it was Liberals who sought to water down 18C and that was a debate in which we had the former Liberal Attorney‑General George Brandis saying that people have a right to be a bigot. You won’t hear Labor’s Attorneys‑General saying that sort of thing. We’ve been strongly standing in solidarity with the Jewish community. These attacks are abhorrent. This protest should never have gone ahead.
Cenatiempo:
I’m not sure the Jewish community would agree with that. Andrew, I always appreciate your time. We’ll talk again in a couple of weeks.
Leigh:
Look forward to it Stephen, take care.
Cenatiempo:
Andrew Leigh, the Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury and the Member for Fenner.