Stephen Cenatiempo:
Time to talk federal politics with the Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury Andrew Leigh. Andrew, good morning.
Andrew Leigh:
Good morning, Stephen.
Cenatiempo:
I want to touch on your charities portfolio for a moment. Charities are obviously doing it tough at the moment but have a greater demand on them than they’ve ever had. As a politician, particularly in a Treasury portfolio, what do you think when you look at this because I mean this sort of highlights why it’s so important to get fiscal policy right?
Leigh:
Yeah, we’ve had a big increase in demands for the services of charities. Many Australians face cost‑of‑living pressures and many charities are out there doing great work.
We’ve given record support to them as a government and we’re also calling on Australians, if you can, to support a trusted charity this season. If you’re not sure whether a charity is trusted, the best way to find out is to go to the charity commission register at acnc.gov.au.
And we’ve got a target Stephen, as you know, of doubling philanthropy by 2030 and as part of that we’re seeking to make it easier for charities to get deductible gift recipient status, making things more transparent and boosting trust in the sector.
Cenatiempo:
See, I have a fundamental problem with that. When you say you want to double philanthropy – surely the goal should be halve the need for it?
Leigh:
Well, obviously we’re doing a lot more in terms of social support. We’ve increased income support payments in previous budgets, Commonwealth Rent Assistance, for example, is up 40 per cent since we came to office.
Cenatiempo:
Yeah but again, I mean the need for these things is what we should be focusing on. You know, we should be aiming for a society where people don’t need any of this?
Leigh:
Well, one of the valuable roles of charities can be to act as the R&D arm of government – to try innovative things in areas where we’re tackling big challenges. You see charities doing this in the medical research space, but you also see it in the social innovation area. Things like social enterprise, you know, think about Krofne’s Doughnuts that you’ll see in many Canberra shopping centres providing employment to people with disabilities and also yummy takeaway treats at the same time. Or Soft Landing, which takes apart mattresses and provides jobs to people who wouldn’t otherwise have them. That’s a way in which charity can fill in gaps that might be trickier for government to fill.
Cenatiempo:
Yeah, yeah. No, I understand that. And this is not a criticism of you, or even the current government it’s just that we never focus on creating a society where people don’t need charity or don’t need hand‑outs from the government or whatever. You know, it’s a little bit like the whole housing debate at the moment where we talk about social and affordable housing, we don’t talk about eliminating the need for it.
Leigh:
I mean, I had this argument with friends on the left some of whom argue that all charities are a market failure. I disagree with that perspective. I think it’s actually terrific when you’ve got a thriving civil society and people are getting together, encouraging others and helping out others and taking some of that responsibility as a community.
Václav Havel – the poet who became the Czech President said you can measure the strength of a society by the strength of its beer brewing clubs, by which he meant that a good democracy also had a whole lot of local community groups – everything from beer brewing to stamp collecting to sports playing. So I do think charities have an important role to play…
Cenatiempo:
Oh, no doubt about that.
Leigh:
And I’m an egalitarian and want to reduce inequality.
Cenatiempo:
Yeah. But that’s my point. I mean, you know, I agree with everything you say there, but you know, I think back to the old saying that, ‘If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him to fish you feed him for life.’ I mean that’s the crux of what I’m getting at is that, you know, what we should be aiming for is a set where nobody ever has to go to a charity and nobody ever has to put their hand out to government. Now I know that’s a utopia but you know, I just think sometimes we focus on the back end rather than the front end, if you know what I mean?
Leigh:
Yeah, I mean the best charities are doing both of those things Stephen, and so if you look at say the Sobering Up Centre at Ainslie Village – it’s a place where people are finding themselves, if they’ve falling down blind drunk in Civic on a Saturday night and don’t know how to get home. The Sobering Up Centre will of course provide a bed and short‑term safe accommodation, but then in the morning they’ll have a bit of a chat with the client about alcoholism and how they might think about cutting back on their drinking as well. Trying to, you know, teach the person to fish for life if you like.
Cenatiempo:
You’ve talked recently, as we head into the Christmas period – charities aside, a lot of us are out there spending money that we haven’t got on gifts for loved ones and putting ourselves at risk in a lot of cases, because a lot of this shopping is happening online these days.
You’ve talked about some of the strengthening of the ACCC’s, I guess capabilities, to look at both online and in‑store. But I think online is probably what the focus should be at the moment, shouldn’t it?
Leigh:
Yeah, that’s right. I mean most retailers are doing the right thing, but there’s a few dodgy operators out there who aren’t so we’ve boosted the maximum penalty to $50 million for consumer rip‑offs and given additional resources to the ACCC to crack down on some of that wrongdoing.
The ACCC is out there looking for problematic products and I had a press conference on the weekend with some of the items that CHOICE has identified which failed Australian consumer standards, particularly around button batteries which can kill little kids.
Cenatiempo:
Yeah.
Leigh:
They need to be properly secured, and some of the products you find online aren’t. There’s a thing called the Product Safety Pledge which the ACCC has concluded with 3 of the big online retailers, Ali Express, eBay and Amazon. They’ve withdrawn some 31,000 non‑complying products voluntarily in the last financial year – up 60 per cent from the previous year. So there’s a lot being done but it’s still important to report any wrongdoing which you see.
Cenatiempo:
One of the things you talked about in a recent speech is misleading countdown timers or limited time claims. The entire Black Friday, Cyber Monday was exactly that because the sales just went on forever?
Leigh:
Yeah, I mean it’s become bigger and bigger but you know, the sales are real in the sense that you can see it in the Consumer Price Index.
Cenatiempo:
Yeah.
Leigh:
So, in previous years you didn’t see the price drop at this time of year, now you actually do. So, it’s getting bigger and longer and I guess Australians are going to be retiming some of their Christmas purchases to take advantage of those sales. It’s no bad thing, so long as retailers are honest with people and aren’t offering sort of fake or misleading countdown timers.
Cenatiempo:
Indeed. Andrew, great to speak to you. Thank you for your contributions throughout the year. This will be the last time we chat on air this time, so all the best to you and your family for Christmas and we’ll catch up again in the new year.
Leigh:
Thanks Stephen, all the best to you and your listeners.
Cenatiempo:
All the best. Andrew Leigh, the Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury and the Member for Fenner.