Thomas Oriti:
Dr Andrew Leigh is Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury, who is with us now. Good afternoon.
Andrew Leigh:
Good afternoon Thomas, great to be with you.
Oriti:
Thank you for joining us. I mean, this is usually the responsibilities of the states and a story we’ve been covering for quite some time. In fact, I hazarded a guess, when we look at all of the issues we’ve been chatting about this year on Drive, e‑bikes would be up there in terms of the passionate response from our audience. Why is the federal government getting involved now?
Leigh:
Well, consumer affairs is a compact between the Commonwealth and the states and territories, which is why in Darwin last week when Consumer Ministers met, we agreed to work together on setting a national standard for e‑bikes. The Transport Ministers, led by Minister Catherine King, have already put in place an international standard which sets limits on speeds and power, as you referred to before.
Now, from a consumer side, we’re focusing on what can be sold. That regulation happens through the federal regulator – the ACCC, which will set the standard and then work to enforce it and also through all the state and territory fair trading bodies.
Oriti:
Okay that’s looking at what will be sold. So, obviously maximum speeds, that kind of thing. But isn’t the issue with e‑bikes, particularly in Sydney, we keep hearing that what’s being sold is not what’s on the road? People are tweaking the speeds. They’re fiddling with the motors and making them faster than they should be. These changes won’t necessarily target that, will they?
Leigh:
Well, that work on enforcement of what’s being ridden is ongoing already. So, the Transport Ministers have agreed to move to an international benchmark, EN 15194, which is a standard that has to do with speed, with power and also with the ability to modify.
So, some of these bikes have rules – if you comply with the international standard, it means that if anyone attempts to modify the bike, then it immediately reverts to the factory setting. Indeed, in some cases they will revert to a go‑slow mode, and so you can’t get power assist beyond 6 kilometres an hour. Almost a punishment for attempting to modify the bike. We’re also looking at things like what happens to modification kits and whether they should be banned as part of this reform.
Oriti:
Okay. I’m just a bit confused though Andrew, because I thought that was already the law in Australia? The maximum speed that an electric motor that can legally provide power resistance to an e‑bike is 25 kilometres an hour. Isn’t that already the case?
Leigh:
So, the Transport Ministers have set what can be used. This is the Consumer Ministers setting what can be sold. We need those 2 parts…
Oriti:
Surely. Sorry to interrupt, but surely there should be a correlation there already? If there’s a law about what can be used, surely that already links with what can be sold?
Leigh:
Absolutely. And so that’s the work that the ACCC will bring down for us in the beginning of next year, and then we’ll set about enforcing that. We’ll start with e‑bikes, and then we’ll move on to other forms of e‑mobility – e‑scooters and those one‑wheel devices that we’re starting to see popping up around the place as well.
These are great in terms of mobility, in terms of extending people’s cycling career, in terms of getting somebody who’s in a hilly area onto a bike. They help take people out of their cars and therefore take pressure off traffic congestion. But as you said in your introduction, we’re seeing too many people ending up in emergency rooms, either as riders or as pedestrians who’ve been hit. We’ve got to get those unsafe e‑bikes off the road.
Oriti:
Yeah, we’ve heard about a lot of pedestrian accidents in particular, but I’m just. Are you saying that currently, with that limit that’s in place? Sorry to keep coming back to this. There is currently a maximum speed for an electric motor on an e‑bike in Australia right? We’ve discussed that. 25kms an hour. Wouldn’t that already make it illegal to sell a bike that goes faster than that? I’m trying to get my head around the change. Are you saying that people can actually sell an e‑bike that goes faster than what is legally allowed in Australia?
Leigh:
Yes, that’s right. And so the rules about what can be used and what can be sold differ at the moment. The Transport Ministers have agreed –
Oriti:
That’s a huge problem across the board. If people can sell things that aren’t actually legally allowed to be used in Australia?
Leigh:
Absolutely. So, the Transport Ministers have agreed to set those standards. States and territories have differed in terms of how they’ve gone and getting that into their domestic law. Obviously, transport rules are a matter for states and territories and so some states and territories have moved faster than others, but that has been agreed at the level of Transport Ministers and the states and territories are implementing it. Now we’re moving on the consumer side, making sure that those products aren’t sold and getting a clear standard which applies to the sale of e‑bikes.
Oriti:
Okay when will that movement happen in reality? When will people not be able to sell e‑bikes in Australia that aren’t actually legally allowed to be used anyway?
Leigh:
The competition watchdog will bring down its new standard at the beginning of next year and then we’ll set about reinforcing it both through the Commonwealth regulator and also through the state and territory fair trading bodies.
Oriti:
Why would it take 4 months? If these products can’t legally be used on Australian roads, why not make them illegal now?
Leigh:
Well, this is about setting a standard which applies now to Australia.
Oriti:
Why set a standard? Why set a standard? If they’re illegal on Australian roads why can’t they be ruled out right now, today?
Leigh:
Because we need to have a standard that applies to sale, which is different from the standard that applies to use.
Oriti:
Okay.
Leigh:
That’s work which doesn’t just go to e‑bikes. It also spans other forms of e‑micromobility. We need to make sure we get it right, engaging with the different companies. There is a lot of enthusiasm and people using e‑bikes. We don’t want to be ruling out bikes which are helping people to get to and from work if they live outside the bus network. We want to be encouraging the uptake of safe e‑bikes and cracking down on dangerous e‑bikes. And that’s what this work does.
Oriti:
It’s funny, someone’s just texted in. ‘Well, currently cars are sold that exceed the legal limit’. Yes, that’s right. You buy a car that goes well and truly over 110. So I’m not trying to be rude, I’m just trying to get my head around it because it does sound like a messy scenario where we’ve had so many incidents on Sydney roads recently, Andrew. But these can actually legally be sold despite not legally being able to be used on roads. It’s strange how they don’t align, you know what I mean?
Leigh:
Yeah. We’ve got a range of channels through which these are coming in. Typically if you go into a bike store, you’re going to find bikes which are compliant with that standard, that are according with the road rules. But if you’re ordering online, there are too many bikes that are coming in that either are non‑compliant immediately or with a couple of little tweaks can be made to be non‑compliant.
You’ll see people moving around on bikes which are motorised without people turning the pedals. The EN 15194 standard requires that you’ve got to be turning the pedals in order for the electric assist to come on and it cuts out at 25 kilometres an hour.
Oriti:
Okay, we appreciate you coming on and we’ll keep an eye on the story. Thank you very much, Andrew.
Leigh:
Thanks so much, Thomas.
Oriti:
Take care. Thanks a lot. Dr Andrew Leigh there joining us, Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury.