Tom Connell:
Immigration has become a big political talking point in Australia. It’s soared, of course. Post‑COVID, Labor has been paring it back. The Coalition says not enough. It has released, well, part of its policy earlier in the week. Joining me now, Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury. Few titles in there. Not immigration, but he’s written a piece about it, so I’ll ask him anyway. It’s Andrew Leigh. Thank you for your time.
Andrew Leigh:
Pleasure Tom.
Connell:
So you’ve taken an issue with the Opposition on migration. I mean, they want to cut – Labor itself has been saying it really needs to reduce it though, so it’s not. You’re both on the same side in one sense. Immigration has been too high, it’s just how much it’s been too high?
Leigh:
As you said Tom, we’ve pared back the numbers but we haven’t done that by demonising migrants. And the Coalition traditionally has been a party that has supported openness, right through from Menzies to Turnbull. But we’ve seen with this speech from Matt Canavan last week praising tariffs and the one from Angus Taylor this week walking away from the bipartisan commitment to a non‑discriminatory immigration policy a Coalition that seems to think that Australia lacks the confidence to engage with the world. That doesn’t realise that tariffs are just a tax on consumers and doesn’t recognise that migrants are out there building the houses that Australia needs.
Connell:
Does it make sense that permanent residents should learn English?
Leigh:
Certainly, the English test is there and is an important part of what we do. But I think many Australians whose parents don’t have perfect English would be a little offended by Angus Taylor’s implication that they’re somehow substandard Australians.
Connell:
But in terms of the future and how we direct our policy, it would make sense, wouldn’t it? That permanent residents learn English?
Leigh:
English skills are certainly part of the mix, as is education, as is being young and having the right skills. All of that comes into the configuration, but you want to be really careful in suggesting that somehow a grandmother who doesn’t speak perfect English isn’t as strong a citizen as any one of us who were born here.
Connell:
You mentioned building houses. So, of the skilled temporary workers, only about 4,000 a year are tradies – 2.5 per cent. Why is that figure so low?
Leigh:
Well we have significantly increased the number of construction workers coming in – approximately a tripling, and if you look on building sites 28 per cent of those in building and plumbing trades were born overseas. So, we are making use of overseas‑born labour in order to build the houses that Australia needs.
Connell:
But that’s very low. That’s the most recent intake figure –2.5 per cent. Is it unions holding you back there?
Leigh:
Well we’ve got migrants coming doing a whole host of other things. About half the doctors in Australia were born overseas; about 40 per cent of the nurses. So we’re filling skills shortages in those sectors as well. While of course, we’re boosting the number of places to train Australians in medicine and in construction trades as well.
Connell:
Given construction is very job heavy, you know, compared to how many doctors you actually need in the country. Is that too low? 2.5 per cent are tradies?
Leigh:
Well, we’ve been making sure we’re bringing in the migrants to fit the skills gaps that Australia has…
Connell:
What does that mean? Does it need to go higher? Are you saying that the settings are right, or it needs to be higher than the current number?
Leigh:
We don’t have a particular quota for construction trades. People will come in based on the point system and the way in which the points are allocated at the start of the year. I know for Tony Burke, this has been a priority since he recognises that migrants aren’t just mouths to feed, but muscles to build and minds to inspire.
Connell:
So he’s going to increase that number is he?
Leigh:
Well again, we don’t set a construction trades figure, we set the…
Connell:
But you can change the settings? If they’re not coming in enough, if it’s too hard for them to get in via that temporary skilled worker system. You can change the settings so it’s easier for them to get in?
Leigh:
Look, I think the system is working well. Angus Taylor clearly doesn’t. Angus Taylor doesn’t realise the last 2 Australian Nobel Laureates were born overseas. He doesn’t seem to recognise the value of having a non‑discriminatory immigration policy and the signal that that sends to the rest of the world if you walk away from it. You know, we were seen in a very dim light back in the days of White Australia and I don’t want to return to that.
Connell:
I want to ask you about the subscription traps you were talking about. So, changes made here and how it would actually work. So, most of the time it’s through a phone these days. You see something, you sign up to it. Would it be that in the future you have to then recommit on the day your free trial ends? So often you get a one-month free trial and if you forget suddenly, that’s rolling over month by month. That’s a subscription trap. Should it be that you actually have to opt in again to pay for the first time? Is that what the law’s going to be?
Leigh:
Yeah. We’ll have a series of quite precise rules around that, that will make it easy for businesses to comply. One of those is to do away with the old ‘click to sign up, pick up the phone to cancel’ business model. The other is the issue of free trials as you’ve said Tom. Making sure people are notified before that’s rolled into a paid subscription.
Connell:
So, if I do that. Let’s say it’s a month – the day I’m going to pay, there’s an alert. I have to actively go, ‘yes, pay’. Nothing rolls over – that will be the case?
Leigh:
You’ll need to be notified. Businesses won’t be able to simply roll you in without notifying you.
Connell:
What does that mean? Like, could it be an email or something?
Leigh:
Yeah, that would be a standard way of communicating.
Connell:
Alright. So, it could still be default signed up, but you’re at least told about it before you pay the money?
Leigh:
Exactly. And one of the big things is to do away with that Hotel California situation where you can check out anytime you like, but you can’t ever really leave your subscription. We know that subscription traps are a bane of many Australians, whether that’s gyms or online services. Subscriptions themselves are terrific. Subscription traps will end.
Connell:
Is it time for a gas tax in Australia?
Leigh:
We’ve increased the petroleum resource rent tax under Treasurer Chalmers. He did that in 2023. And that brings forward the PRRT payments from those west coast gas projects from the 2030s through to the 2020s. A reform which has seen hundreds of millions of dollars of extra revenue go to the Commonwealth coffers…
Connell:
That’s not much though when you talk about tens of billions of the industry, though. Do you think we’re getting a fair value for our gas as it stands, with all those changes included?
Leigh:
We haven’t announced any additional changes. We have made changes, and those changes have benefited the Budget bottom line.
Connell:
Are we getting a reasonable amount though, from our resources in your view?
Leigh:
We are certainly getting more than we did under the settings that were in place under the Coalition government.
Connell:
Sure, but is it reasonable?
Leigh:
Well, it’s a significant source of revenue for Australia. Obviously Tom, you’re asking me to forecast what’s going to be in the Budget. That will be…
Connell:
Oh I’m just asking for your view. You know, you’re a thinker on these things. You’d be looking at what happens in Norway and all these countries, and we get a staggeringly small amount of money for our gas compared to big exporters. That’s true isn’t it?
Leigh:
Well I’m a thinker and I think my thoughts in concert with the economic team. I’m very pleased to provide that input ahead of the Budget coming down on May 12.
Connell:
Alright. We’ll see if your thoughts – whatever they might have been – have been listened to perhaps Andrew, if I can put it that way. Andrew Leigh, thank you.
Leigh:
Thanks Tom.