SUBJECTS: Members and Senators motorcycle ride and breakfast, child care, government spending.
A podcast and mp3 download of this interview is available on the ABC website.
STEVE AUSTIN:
I want to start on a lighter note Bernie. There's the third Federal Members and Senators motorcycle ride and breakfast on today. This sounds like – as you know I am a fan of motorcycles – this sounds great. Tell me what it's for. Most people don't see this side of our Federal Parliamentarians. What happened and who turned up?
BERNIE RIPOLL:
It's a sight to behold. We've got Bronwyn Bishop on the back of a Harley Davidson. We've got former Speaker David Hawker out there pedalling a big bike. We've got a whole heap of Labor, Liberal, Independent… A whole heap of MPs that comes out. The whole thing's about just highlighting motorcycle use on our roads and safety. We've got the Brotherhood of Saint Laurence involved and also the Australian Motorcycle Council and of course some of our motorcycle dealers here Canberra who are generous, very generous. They loan us their very expensive Harley Davidson's or some other really nice bike for us to cruise around on for an hour or so in the morning and then have a breakfast and some guest speakers. Look, it's a great thing to do. Motorcycle riding is a really big part of Australian culture. Safety is always an issue. Roads belong to everybody and not just cars.
STEVE AUSTIN:
So this is to highlight road safety or something Bernie Ripoll?
BERNIE RIPOLL:
It is, yeah. Look, they're pushing, the Australian Motorcycle Council are pushing for some changes to law around how safety barriers are put in to place. There are certain types that are better for motorcyclists in case there's an accident. Others that are more dangerous for motorcycles. Some have sharp edges, others that are more like rope and things like that. So there's different types of things that you can do to make motorcycle riding safer on our roads, road design, a whole range of things. Look, I think it's a normal coming of age of our transport collective which is that we recognise that transport is about walking, it's about cycling, it's about buses, it's about rail, cars, motorbikes, mopeds. All the different forms in which we get ourselves from A to B how we commute to work.
STEVE AUSTIN:
I think you ride a motorcycle, don't you Bernie?
BERNIE RIPOLL:
Look, I do and I am very proud to say right now I ride a very big black Vespa scooter. I am not kidding you, it's a beautiful little scooter.
STEVE CIOBO:
Steve I was listening intently then because I knew you ride a Vespa.
BERNIE RIPOLL:
Look, I occasionally get around on a Harley Davidson when a good friend of mine lets me ride his. But I‘ve got to tell you I've had some big bikes over long periods of time but the scooter/the Vespa is just a lot of fun.
STEVE AUSTIN:
You need to watch the old movie Roman Holiday. In black and white.
BERNIE RIPOLL:
Ok, I will. I will go and check it out.
STEVE AUSTIN:
I won't say any more. Just watch it. You will see how the Vespa just weaves into the story. Steve, you don't ride a motorcycle, do you?
STEVE CIOBO:
Steve, both for my sake and other road users, I am pleased to say I am nowhere near a two-wheel beast.
STEVE AUSTIN:
I didn't know Bronwyn Bishop rode a motorcycle or was she on the back of the hog, was she?
BERNIE RIPOLL:
No, she was on the back of the hog that is exactly right and with a special helmet.
STEVE AUSTIN:
Well, thank you for that. That is a rare side of what happens in Canberra that we don't often hear. Now down to matters at hand. Can I ask you about sort of the story of the day where apparently our Prime Minister Julia Gillard is going to lend her support to the Union push to seek top-up wages for those workers in the childcare industry. Apparently, according to the media reports today will be an equivalent of around a $1.4 billion a year boost to private childcare workers. Bernie, what's Julia Gillard going to say or do today about this. Can you enlighten me at all?
BERNIE RIPOLL:
Well, certainly the first thing to say is that childcare workers work very hard and they're a very important part of our economy, they are an important part of most parents lives in terms of how their kids get looked after. There's been a professionalisation and a lifting of the standard. I think on all of that front we all agree. I think the fact that childcare workers are one of the lowest paid workers in this country is a shame. I think that certainly there needs to be a recognition of the good work they do and they ought to be paid appropriately. Like, Steve, you'd expect and like expect and like everyone else expects. It is a big number that has been put forward and the Prime Minister as all Prime Minister's should do is talk to everybody in terms of these matters. But it's not a decision for Government. This is going to be a matter for tribunals for others to decide. The Government doesn't actually pay for this directly. This is not something the Government decides and then pays for. As Government we are still committed and we've made some very big reforms in childcare lifting the childcare rebate from 30 per cent to 50 per cent because we understand there's a really big cost-of-living pressure for ordinary families with young children and childcare. So, look we've made no commitments in terms of the extra funding or where that will come from. That really is up to tribunals to decide whether the case is for that amount of money or another amount of money. But I am certainly in no position to approve or disapprove of anything in this point of time.
STEVE AUSTIN:
Is she going to make some statement today about it – do you know?
BERNIE RIPOLL:
Look, no I don't and I suspect – look there is a fair bit of activity on this at the moment and United Voice that represents the childcare workers in Australia have done a very good job of advocating for their members and really highlighting the work they do and the low wages. Look, as much as this could be a really big political issue, it is not political in that sense because I think we'd all recognise that any of us who have children we want really decent well-qualified people that look after our kids. You really can't pay them peanuts but for a lot of them that is what they're getting now. So there is a ground swell of support. It is a lot of money in terms of the sector. As I said, again it is not about where the Government's not going to fund this, but it does have an impact in terms of the rebate. I mean we are at 50 per cent rebate for childcare. So it does have an impact that way. But look, hopefully there is an announcement today from the Prime Minister one way or the other or whether we are going to be working with that part of the sector.
STEVE CIOBO:
Well Steve, I mean the issue here is that I don't agree with Bernie. I don't think this Government has a good track record when it comes to childcare. The reality is, and you'd recall I am sure Steve, do you remember the promise to end the double school drop-off and the Federal Labor Government's announcement that they would be building 260 childcare centres across Australia? Bear in mind these would have been childcare centres in direct competition with those already in the marketplace providing childcare. Of course as time's past, this has been yet another promise that the Labor Party has failed to deliver on. All announcement, no delivery. They've only built I think like ten childcare centres. In addition to that because of the changes they made to the national framework they have forced up the price of childcare so I am pleased that the rebate has gone up because the rebate needed to go up because again, this Government has driven up the cost of childcare. In addition to that we come back to the central point of all of this and I am pleased that Bernie confirmed today that the Labor Party would not be using taxpayers funds to top up the wages. Now this isn't about whether or not they deserve a wages top-up. This is about whether or not taxpayers should fund it. Because this Government has entered a dangerous new phase of making massive spending commitments. We've seen $6.5 billion under Gonski, we've seen the National Disability Insurance Scheme and now potentially the $1.4 billion for this. Each and every one of these promises Steve which is costing taxpayers billions is all borrowed money. The point I'd make with respect to childcare workers and for example Gonski is the kids that are sitting in schools today, or children, the ones that are in childcare centres the two, three, four year-olds, they're the ones that have to pay-off the hundreds of billions of dollars of debt that the Labor Party is leaving behind. They will be paying this debt back for decades.
STEVE AUSTIN:
Bernie Ripoll. There has been the observation that some people believe an early Federal election is on the cards. The Federal Government has made some very generous package announcements funding wise.
BERNIE RIPOLL:
Yeah, look, I wouldn't put it in those terms. I'd say, what we've been doing is continuing the good work of our legislative program and our policy work. Just to pick up on the points of Gonski and NDIS. They are topical and people are interested. Gonski is not about funding $6.5 billion here and now right at this very moment. Gonski in principle is about making some significant changes to the way schools are funded to make it fair and equitable for every single school in this country. Every single school. There is a lot of support for that. Now, it's not about the Federal Government stumping up the whole lot. It's about working with the States and Territories and we've discussed this before. And we'll get there and we've already said this is going to be in the out years. 2014 start. We understand there are budgetary pressures and we're being fiscally responsible and that's why we are not…
STEVE CIOBO:
You're not being fiscally responsible. You are a long way away from that.
BERNIE RIPOLL:
…Well we are, well we are. When it comes to the NDIS, it'll be phased over eight years. It's a recognition of the cost of the program, but it is also about reallocating the current spend. It's not all new money. It's new money in one sense but it's money that's already been spent but mis-spent in a whole range of areas and bringing them into a national program that provides better packages, better outcomes for people with disabilities. You know, just all one side of the ledger here. It is about making some clear choices, it is about changing systems and it is about – and I can't imagine anyone would argue against a National Disability Insurance Scheme because for 20 years at least I have heard people in my community. They are screaming for something like this. So we agree and we have gone and done the work that says, well here's the framework, here's what it looks like, here's what it can do. Yes of course it will cost money. Everything costs money but you have to make the tough decisions.
STEVE CIOBO:
So what are you tough decisions Bernie?
BERNIE RIPOLL:
The tough decisions are this.
STEVE CIOBO:
Where are you finding the savings measures?
BERNIE RIPOLL:
Sure, let me answer that.
STEVE CIOBO:
The reality is you've got $120 billion of announced commitments that your Government simply does not have the money to pay for. So where are these funding commitments coming from?
BERNIE RIPOLL:
Well you can't have it both ways Steve, because if you're saying where are these savings coming from and you cant then just a breath later attack us for making cuts in certain areas in departments.
STEVE CIOBO:
You're the ones attacking us. I mean you have been relentlessly attacking Campbell Newman for making tough decisions.
BERNIE RIPOLL:
And so we should. And so we should.
STEVE AUSTIN:
Keep going Bernie Ripoll.
BERNIE RIPOLL:
Because Campbell Newman is out of hand sacking 14,000 frontline public servants. We're not talking about somebody…
STEVE CIOBO:
Not frontline Bernie. (inaudible)
STEVE AUSTIN:
Steve Ciobo, let Bernie Ripoll finish his…
BERNIE RIPOLL:
Well, it is frontline. Just because you've re-defined what frontline means doesn't mean they are no longer frontline. The reality is we are making very sensible and tough – tough is not about sacking people, tough is about making efficiency savings. Take Defence for example. We're making some very tough budgetary cuts in Defence which are reasonable. It's about administrative cuts, it's about, it's not about capacity, it's not about capability cuts. A lot of it civilian based, a lot of it is about programs that are ending, a lot of it is about deferring some spending. There are a multitude of ways that you can make savings do it right without just sacking people. And the Australia Public Service. There is 167,000 employees and in the broader public sector there is something like 350,000 employees.
STEVE AUSTIN:
There's how many public servants?
BERNIE RIPOLL:
The APS is 167,000 people.
STEVE AUSTIN:
That's less than Queensland.
BERNIE RIPOLL:
And the broader number is 350,000 in the public sector broadly.
STEVE AUSTIN:
Oh, I see, ok. My apologies.
BERNIE RIPOLL:
So I am just trying to give you the perspective of the two numbers. Now, we are making some savings there. There will be some job losses. They are all voluntary. People will be offered voluntary redundancies. There is some natural attrition. We are talking 3,000, not 14,000 and not sacking people. So there is a big difference. These things aren't just a simplistic approach. We've made funding commitments and promises in a whole range of areas. Education, health, national disabilities and we're going to stretch those out to make sure we can deliver those programs.
STEVE AUSTIN:
I have to give Steve Ciobo a chance to respond. I am mindful of the time. But before I do, Bernie just quickly, is there any talk of an early election in Caucus? Is there any desire…
BERNIE RIPOLL:
Ahh, yes, the early election. The early election bogey.
STEVE AUSTIN:
It does look like it with all your funding announcements.
BERNIE RIPOLL:
Well, Steve and I were actually having a good laugh about this off-air. We were just thinking you know, just after being called to have an election for two years, every week you know, call an election, call an election, call an election. My view actually is no we're not going to call an election. We're actually going to go all the way. Three years.
STEVE AUSTIN:
Steve Ciobo.
STEVE CIOBO:
I think there is a 30 to 40 per cent chance that this Government will call an early election. But ultimately, see, this is what this strategy is all about. Because Wayne Swan and Julia Gillard have a massive problem Steve. What they call MYEFO. The Mid-Year Economic Forecast (inaudible).
STEVE AUSTIN:
You've got 20 seconds Steve. I'm sorry, otherwise I'm going to lose my link.
STEVE CIOBO:
Sure, we've seen a $20 billion writedown in the Government revenue which means that Wayne Swans fabled $1.5 billion surplus is more likely another $15-$20 billion deficit this year. Reinforces the point they don't have the money to fund any of these promises.
STEVE AUSTIN:
I've got to leave it there. Steve Ciobo and Bernie Ripoll, thank you very much for you time.
STEVE CIOBO:
Thanks Steve.
BERNIE RIPOLL:
Thanks.