SUBJECTS: Out of use bowsers, Petrol Commissioner
ADAM SPENCER:
We've got Chris Bowen, the Assistant Treasurer, on the line. Good morning Assistant Treasurer, how are you?
CHRIS BOWEN:
I'm very well Adam, how are you?
SPENCER:
Well thank you.
BOWEN:
I've got the three year old and the three month old in the background, so if you hear squawking it's not me, it's the protesting little ones.
SPENCER:
Mate, you are talking my world, I hope your wife got more sleep - I hope you got more sleep - than my wife and I did last night.
Now, what has happened here? This seems to have gone now from the level of rumour/innuendo to something that's being actually investigated. Why have you forced the hand here?
BOWEN:
Well we have these allegations from time to time that people go to service stations on cheaper days and find the tanks allegedly empty. Now, we have investigated this in the past, as have some state offices of fair trading, and found that in the vast majority of cases it is genuinely empty; that they have run out of fuel, because it's a cheap day and they are perhaps cheaper than their competitors so they run out more quickly.
Now, here we have an individual who has gone into the service station, seen a 'this tank not in use' sign and thought 'well I'll give it a go anyway' and filled up and found petrol in the tank. Now, there may be a legitimate reason for this. Often service stations keep a very small amount of petrol in a tank, not enough to keep cars serviced, but they keep petrol in there because it's not good practice to let the tank run completely dry.
But it is concerning that this has happened several weeks in a row.
So, it could be that we have a rogue operator here and the Petrol Commissioner will use his powers to investigate.
SPENCER:
And some people are claiming that these signs are popping up right across the petrol network. Do you think it's a widespread practice that needs to be looked at or do you think it is, as you've suggested, just a couple of people operating 'rogue'?
BOWEN:
As I say, we've looked at this in the past and found that in the majority of cases, the vast majority of cases, it's legitimate. But you'll always find, in any industry, people doing the wrong thing from time to time.
That's why we have a Petrol Commissioner and I'm grateful for the member of the public coming forward because there are several thousand service stations in Australia and we rely on this public information to help the Petrol Commissioner do his job.
If there are people doing the wrong thing, then they'll be dealt with by the Petrol Commissioner and the ACCC.
SPENCER:
Now, just a quick question about people doing the wrong thing. What is wrong with a service station operator only choosing to make a certain amount of the product available when it's at a discount? People in corner shops might discount something and say 'maximum of these you can buy is three' or 'this product is only discounted if you buy other things.'
Doesn't a service station operator have the right to say 'well if petrol is only $1.40 today, I'm only going to allow it to be purchased through a couple of pumps'?
BOWEN:
The Trade Practices Act requires people to be honest in their dealings.
When they say 'this tank's not in use', that it's empty, then that is deceptive and misleading conduct. So the Trade Practices Act says if you're in business with the Australian people then you're required to be honest with them and there's obligations on retailers and different obligations on consumers. If there are people being dishonest or misleading then that's something the ACCC would be very interested in.
SPENCER:
Without wishing to get pedantic, it's if you say the bowser is empty when it's not. But would a service station have the right to say 'look today we're only going to serve out of bowsers one, two and three. We just feel like doing that today'?
BOWEN:
Well, I mean, I think most people when they go into a service station, when it says 'this tank not in use', they assume that there's a problem with it. They don't assume that the service station's decided just to withdraw the product, they assume that there's some sort of problem, which in the vast majority of cases is a fair assumption.
SPENCER:
How long do you think it'll take before this is resolved Chris?
BOWEN:
Oh look the Petrol Commissioner will be on to it. It shouldn't take too long. It's pretty easy to establish. The Petrol Commissioner has the power to seek delivery dockets, so if the tank had been filled up the night before, then it's pretty clear that is was full. If it's been a few days since it was filled up, then it would be pretty apparent as well. So these issues come up from time to time and they get investigated because we can.
SPENCER:
And just quickly Assistant Treasurer, on the whole point of the Petrol Commissioner. Since the Petrol Commissioners appointment, all the too-ing and fro-ing over FuelWatch et cetera, petrol's gone up from about 150 cents per litre to 173.9 cents per litre yesterday. We're haggling over all these policies and Commissioners that will maybe save us a cent or two a litre. Is it clear now that we're really missing the big picture and a cent here or there is not really what the game is about anymore?
BOWEN:
Well, we've always said the biggest impact on Australian petrol prices is world oil prices. But the Petrol Commissioner and what we can do at the margins is to ensure that the market's working as competitively as it can and that people are getting the best deal that they can, in very difficult international circumstances. And that's what the Petrol Commissioner and ACCC's increased power's are all about.
Of course, when you've got world oil prices hitting records then Australian petrol prices are going to hit records, but all the evidence is from the ACCC's petrol inquiry and other inquires is that there are competitive issues, there's a lack of information for consumers, which is why we're doing FuelWatch for example, to give consumers the same information that retailers have. And so that we don't have this situation that the ACCC had described as 'as close to collusion as you can get', where retailers just share information with each other and consumers don't get it and so people often say to me - taxi drivers, constituents et cetera - 'don't you think the petrol companies are colluding?', I say 'well no, I don't think they are because they don't need to'. All the information is at their disposal and consumers just don't get any of it. So it's a really uneven playing field.
SPENCER:
Assistant Treasurer you've got some cuddles to give and some cereal to serve in the background. I'll let you go.
BOWEN:
Not a problem.
SPENCER:
Glad to speak to you there, Chris Bowen.