SUBJECTS: Ken Henry, FuelWatch, Car plan
KIERAN GILBERT:
Joining me now on the PM agenda program, the Assistant Treasurer Chris Bowen, Chris thanks for your time.
CHRIS BOWEN:
My pleasure Kieran.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Chris, first of all I want to put to you a former Treasury chief, John Stone's comments today. He says that at a time of heightened political tension as we are facing at the moment, that the political debate should be done by the masters - he is talking about public servants - and not by public servants themselves, but Ministers not public servants should be giving these sorts of addresses.
Why do you think Ken Henry gave that speech today and is it appropriate?
CHRIS BOWEN:
Absolutely. Senior public servants often address the press club and the speech by the Secretary of the Treasury today was dealing with the Henry Review of Taxation, a matter of some public interest. Of course he was asked questions about other matters, and he answered them appropriately and clearly.
KIERAN GILBERT:
It helps you though doesn't it, politically?
CHRIS BOWEN:
Well, whether or not it helps politically or not is neither here nor there. Senior public servants are entitled, and in fact obliged, to participate in forums like National Press Club. Graeme Samuel, the head of the Department of Foreign Affairs, other senior bureaucrats, regularly address the National Press Club. There is absolutely no problem with doing that.
Of course the politicisation of the public service is coming from the Liberal Party here. We are seeing a very disturbing trend when a senior public servant says something, outlines a series of facts which don't support the narrative of the opposition; they trashed that public servant's reputation, and questioned their integrity. It has simply has to stop.
It is bad for the credibility of the public service; these public servants are good and decent individuals who have served governments of both persuasions and through them the Australian people. Their integrity should not be questioned.
KIERAN GILBERT:
You say it is neither here nor there whether it benefits you politically, and you say the opposition is politicising this - but time after time the Treasurer and your colleagues have been holding picture opportunities and being seen side by side with these senior public officials. Doesn't that politicise the public service to a degree as well?
CHRIS BOWEN:
Not at all. When you are making a serious major announcement, for example when the Treasurer announced the terms of reference for the Henry Review, it would have been inappropriate not to have the Secretary of the Treasury with him, when I released the ACCC's grocery inquiry report I released it with the Chairman of the ACCC, because it was the ACCC's inquiry.
Perfectly appropriate, it happens under governments of various persuasions, and it is not politicising the public service at all.
KIERAN GILBERT:
All right. Well onto another matter. Your FuelWatch scheme, you're the minister responsible for it; it has been stopped, blocked in the Senate. Yet today you did not raise at once in question time, you must not think much of the scheme?
CHRIS BOWEN:
Well, there were a lot of things to be discussed in question time today.
Thirty-four all in the Senate, it doesn't get much closer than that. Very disappointed of course that the scheme has been defeated.
Take for example today Kieran, in Sydney for example, the difference between the cheapest petrol and most expensive petrol is 46 cents a litre. Now people think petrol is expensive, and it is, but there are big differences out there in prices, and we believe people should be given the information as to where the cheapest petrol is, so that they can get to it easily, quickly and with certainty - and also Kieran the ACCC has said there is effectively collusion in the retail petrol market, and FuelWatch is the way to deal with it.
The opposition has said we don't care, we don't care if there is effectively collusion; doesn't worry us at all. Well that is not made an approach that has been acceptable to us.
KIERAN GILBERT:
So will you re-introduce this legislation?
CHRIS BOWEN:
Well, we would need to see some indication from Senators that they would be prepared to reconsider, there is no point just taking the legislation back constantly if it is just going to be defeated constantly.
If senators indicate that they would be prepared to reconsider, then we would certainly be prepared to talk to them about it. But the fact of the matter is, the sad fact, is the Senate has defeated fuel watch today, and denied motorists that information, and given the green light to that effective collusion in the retail petrol market.
KIERAN GILBERT:
There have been mixed reviews about FuelWatch though, this really does effectively let's you off the hook to a degree because you don't have to be held accountable for it if it doesn't work.
CHRIS BOWEN:
Well Fuelwatch was always going to be controversial, I said that to the Cabinet when I recommended it to the Cabinet. This will be very controversial; there will be people who like it and people who don't. But I went through the policy reasons for doing it, and the policy reasons stand up to any analysis.
Now of course one of the great benefits of FuelWatch is that it will give people notice of prices. If you're going to see a big spike in petrol prices before weekends, as you do under the weekly cycle, people will have notice of that and say " well, no I am not going to pay that much extra, I'm going to go out now and get petrol before the price goes up".
People would have had that information under Fuelwatch; it will be denied to them by Malcolm Turnbull and the Liberal party.
KIERAN GILBERT:
On the $6.2 billion car plan. We read that it was put to Cabinet as a fait accompli, and decided by the Expenditure Review Committee. Is it appropriate for such a major expenditure, such a big plan, to not have been debated by Cabinet?
CHRIS BOWEN:
Well of course we don't comment on Cabinet debate or cabinet procedures. It went through all the right processes. It went to the Cabinet for discussion, and decision. We don't comment on what happens inside the cabinet...
KIERAN GILBERT:
...you are in ERC not Cabinet...
CHRIS BOWEN:
I don't comment, and nor will any of my colleagues, on what was considered by the Expenditure Review Committee or the Cabinet. But it went through the right processes, and every Cabinet Minister was consulted through that Cabinet process
KIERAN GILBERT:
Chris we have been told that it was a fait accompli to the Cabinet, and there was no debate, it was decided by the committee that the Prime Minister seems to put a lot of faith in?
CHRIS BOWEN:
There is a lot of robust discussion around the Cabinet room and what you won't get is Ministers - Cabinet or otherwise - commenting on that discussion.
KIERAN GILBERT:
All right, well this plan of $6.2 billion is based on co-investment; but given what we have seen of the flow on effects of the crisis around the world, the fact that the Detroit parent companies are struggling themselves - the co-investment could be very small indeed. Do you concede that the whole plan could cost a lot less than $6 billion?
CHRIS BOWEN:
Well I do acknowledge, and the Government has said all the way along that this is a co-investment plan. The car companies need to put their money on the table with the investment, on the way through. What we are doing is ensuring a viable car industry; we are reducing protection, and we are reducing tariffs, as we should, as we need to, but also indicating that that will mean that the car industry needs some assistance through that process.
That's what we are doing. And the car industry has indicated to us that they are coming to the party, and we will obviously require them to come to the party as we go through.
KIERAN GILBERT:
But given the circumstances that we see around the world at the moment, particularly affecting the Detroit motoring giants, the fact is the co-investment could be very, very small.
CHRIS BOWEN:
Well the chief executives of the Australian motoring companies have given us assurances that the investment will be there, and we will be ensuring through the process that when Government money goes in, there is private-sector money there, alongside it.
KIERAN GILBERT:
The point is, we get these big bang announcements of more than $6 billion, the point is it could be a lot less than $6 billion. Do you concede that?
CHRIS BOWEN:
What we have Kieran is a plan in place; to ensure the ongoing viability of the car industry in Australia, this is important to us.
It will mean that we need to require the private sector to invest. We are not saying, here is a lot of money and you don't need to do anything in response that is quite right and proper and appropriate. And we will continue to work with ....
[loss of transmission]
... the car industry is no different, car sales are down in the world as the economy contracts that will be no different. That makes this plan more important, not less.
KIERAN GILBERT:
Assistant Treasurer Chris Bowen, as always, appreciate your time.
CHRIS BOWEN:
Pleasure Kieran, good to see you.