SUBJECTS: Opposition asylum seeker thought bubble, strengthening job seeker engagement with Centrelink
ALEXANDRA KIRK:
Chris Bowen, good morning.
CHRIS BOWEN:
Good morning, Alex.
KIRK:
Firstly, on the Opposition's asylum seeker policy: are you tempted to follow the Opposition's tough stance on the reintroduction of Temporary Protection Visas and also the 45-day rule requiring asylum seekers to work for their welfare?
BOWEN:
Well, we'll wait and see the detail of what the Opposition has to say today. It appears to me to be at this stage a bit of a thought bubble, and I'm a little bit confused because there are already obligations on refugees under our Government to be either learning English, in training or working in return for benefits.
So I'm a little confused about where the Opposition's going here because they are actually rules that we introduced, toughened from the previous Government's arrangements. So we'll wait and see the details but as is often the case with the Opposition, it may well be a thought bubble rather than a well thought out and considered policy.
KIRK:
Can we turn your attention to your new policy on the unemployed? Are you convinced all these people – that is, more than 350,000 of unemployed – could have a job if they really tried?
BOWEN:
Well, this is about making sure that the people who we are targeting here in relation to greater interaction with Centrelink, they are doing their bit to get a job and that we are doing everything we can to assist them to get a job. And this is about more intensive interaction with Centrelink by people who are young job seekers, the long term unemployed or those with a particular history of poor compliance with Centrelink. It's about mutual obligation on those people who will need extra and intensive interaction with Centrelink.
KIRK:
How much of this is a crackdown on fraud? How many do you think are defrauding taxpayers?
BOWEN:
Well, as I say Alex, I think the majority of job seekers do do the right thing, and I'm not going to put a figure on those who I think might not be doing the right thing. We haven't done that modelling and it would be impossible, frankly, to do.
But what we do know is if we increase our interaction with them and we do so more intensively, then we maximise our ability to find those and to deal with those who are not doing the right thing, whether that be by greater assistance or by reminding them of their mutual obligations.
KIRK:
How often will they have to turn up to Centrelink for these intensive interviews?
BOWEN:
Once a fortnight, and importantly, Alex – this is a key point – the interviews in the past for many years have been largely, frankly, a 'tick and flick' exercise. I spend a fair bit of time in Centrelink offices as Minister for Human Services. I see how they work, and in the past they've been one minute interviews with about 30 seconds focused on compliance, which is not capable of allowing Centrelink to come to a considered view of the individual's efforts.
These will be interviews that are five times as long and with a very substantial proportion devoted to compliance measures and making sure that the person is looking for work and actively seeking work, checking to ensure that what they've told us is correct. So this is a very substantial improvement on the previous arrangements. It builds on the reforms we announced last year in terms of encouraging more interaction with Centrelink through the Internet and through voice recognition phone calls, and enables Centrelink to build on that.
KIRK:
On Budget night a couple of weeks ago, the Treasurer said we're almost at the point of full employment. So where are the jobs for at least these 350,000 unemployed people who you're demanding turn up for these regular intensive interviews with Centrelink?
BOWEN:
Well, Alex, the key point is this: yes, we do have low unemployment in Australia and what is historically regarded as being close to full employment, but that does not mean you let people fall through the cracks. It's not in anybody's best interest for people to become long term unemployed. It's not in their best interest, the nation's best interest, society's best interest, and we need to be doing everything we can to actively assist people in that situation to get back into work, and that means more intensive interaction with them. It's about mutual obligation, it's about them telling us what they're doing to find work and us working out what we can do to more assist.
Now, yes, there are some people who find it difficult to get work with the best of intentions in a low unemployment situation. This isn't about punishing people who are doing their best to get work. It's making sure that we have every step in place to find those who are not fulfilling their obligations, reminding them of their obligations. And as I say, ensuring that we're providing every assistance we can as well.
KIRK:
The Opposition's suggested that it might ban the dole for people under 30. Are you just trying to match or outdo the Opposition in the 'get tough on the unemployed' stakes in the lead up to the election?
BOWEN:
No, they can engage in thought bubbles; we'll engage in well considered and developed policy, and that's the essential difference here.
KIRK:
Chris Bowen, thank you.
BOWEN:
Nice to talk to you, Alex.