SUBJECTS: Kevin Rudd, national school curriculum, health reform, Tony Abbott.
FRAN KELLY:
Joining us on Breakfast now is Financial Services Minister Chris Bowen and the Shadow Education Minister Christopher Pyne. Gentlemen, good morning.
CHRIS BOWEN:
Good morning, Fran. Good morning, Christopher.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
Morning, Fran.
KELLY:
The Prime Minister spent the weekend apologising to anybody who would listen. Chris Bowen, was this really necessary? Does the Prime Minister need to apologise for quite so many shortcomings and do you agree with him?
BOWEN:
I think, Fran, what's happened here is that the Prime Minister and the Government have recognised that we have been focused on seeing Australia through the Global Financial Crisis, making sure Australia avoids a recession with all the long term, devastating impact that it has. The Australian people say, 'Good, that's good, but now we want you to get back to focusing on delivering things like health reform and education reform'.
The Prime Minister has very clearly indicated that we've fallen a bit behind on health reform in terms of the agenda that we set when we took office, but it's still very much on our mind and you'll see some very big announcements coming out today. And he just indicated that yes, things have been a little bit harder, partly because of the Global Financial Crisis, but we need to get back to those basics.
KELLY:
So you agree the Government hasn't been up to scratch?
BOWEN:
I think we've been a good Government, Fran, but we can always do better, and the Prime Minister's recognised that.
KELLY:
Let's hear from Tony Abbott: his response to the Prime Minister's serial mea culpas.
[Grab] ABBOTT:
I think he just looked rattled. This is the politics of seeking forgiveness that he's interested in. The thing about this 'I'm sorry' routine is that he really wants to get off scot-free.
KELLY:
That's Tony Abbott speaking earlier this week. Christopher Pyne, voters didn't seem to think the PM was particularly rattled. His support held up quite well in this week's Newspoll, despite the warnings he was giving.
PYNE:
Well, what Kevin Rudd was trying to do was classic inoculation against bad news in the Newspoll because he's focused on polling, he's focused on politics. He's trying to create a snowstorm of distractions to take away from the fact that he promised big before the last election – he really built up people's expectations – and the delivery has been well short of the rhetoric.
It's been a Government of all talk and no action, and he's now hoping that people will say, 'Oh well, Kevin Rudd realised that he needed to lift his game and so we should vote for him again'. It's all politics. It's all cynical. I hate to use the 's' word, but I'm sceptical of Kevin Rudd making this mea culpa. It's mostly about politics and nothing else.
KELLY:
But isn't it better for politicians to make mea culpas than not? I mean, is there anything wrong with a politico 'fessing up to failings and fallibilities?
PYNE:
Look, the Australian public aren't interested in whether Kevin Rudd is sorry or not sorry, or whether he realises that his Government is hopeless or not. They just want him to get on with the job.
KELLY:
Yeah, but Tony Abbott's called on Kevin Rudd repeatedly to say sorry.
PYNE:
Well, say sorry to the families of the four people who, the four young men who died as a consequence of the bungled insulation scheme, sure. That's an apology Kevin Rudd should give. But no one wants this 'Bold and the Beautiful' routine being played through the newspapers on a daily basis about whether Kevin Rudd is sorry or not sorry. People just want him to get on with it.
You know, out in my electorate, in Sturt, people are saying, 'We don't care whether Kevin Rudd is sorry or not; we just want him to actually deliver'. Now, what does he want us to do, well, sort of take out the violins and start playing songs about how difficult it is for him to be Prime Minister?
KELLY:
Okay, but you have to confess he's then gone on the front foot and delivered. You have to concede that. I mean, he's delivered already something very much applicable to your shadow portfolio: the first ever national schools curriculum. Now, your response to that was an immediate 'there's an overemphasis on Aboriginal history and an almost complete blocking out of Australia's British heritage'.
Let's just hear from the Education Minister Julia Gillard, who wasn't impressed with that response.
[Grab] GILLARD:
Well, if someone's going to analyse a document like the curriculum, then they need to read it, think about it, absorb it, and then say something about it. What Mr Pyne has done is he's hit the word search function on his computer. Well, if he was a kid in Grade Seven and he turned in an essay like that, he'd be given a fail.
KELLY:
Christopher Pyne, did you read the history curriculum?
PYNE:
Well, Fran, in response to what you said before you then played Julia Gillard's juvenile remarks, the Government hasn't actually delivered anything. The Government has announced this week, they've made an announcement about the national curriculum. They'll be making an announcement today about health, and that is actually par for the course for this Government.
KELLY:
Can I just interrupt you there? Hasn't the Government put the curriculum online and isn't it being trialled in 150 schools?
PYNE:
Yes, but they've put no money together for implementation, and no money for training and retraining teachers. They've announced a national curriculum which has an overemphasis on Indigenous heritage and culture, which doesn't mention at all issues like the Parliament, like Magna Carta, like the Labor Party, like the Liberal Party, and yet there's 118 references to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander culture and three references to Communism. This is a national curriculum which is not yet implemented. They are talking about having it up and running by 2011. Principals and teachers are saying, 'How on earth do you expect us to do that in the timeframe?'
It is all echoes, yet again, of the failed Building the Education Revolution: the 2,650 promise for trade training centres – they've delivered one; the 260 child care centres – they've delivered two; the 31 GP clinics – they've delivered two. I mean, there's a huge difference between an announcement, Fran, and the actual delivery, and the Government is good at announcing; it's good at going out and tripping over camera wires at supermarkets and schools to get the television grab. It is not very good at delivering on the ground.
KELLY:
Chris Bowen?
PYNE:
That's why the public are upset.
BOWEN:
Fran, Fran – you've had your go Chris – now Fran, I was really disappointed and surprised to hear those comments from Christopher Pyne. They're the sort of comments that you would hear, normally, from the wacky reactionary wing of the Liberal Party represented by Wilson Tuckey. The fact is we are no longer in the 1950s. People acknowledge that Indigenous history is an important part of Australian history, and Asia is an important part of where Australia's been and where Australia's going. That's already reflected in the state curricula; it should be reflected in the national curriculum. Now, for Christopher to make those sort of wacky comments that Indigenous history is too much of a focus in the national curriculum just shows how much the reactionary right wing has taken over the Liberal Party.
I notice that Christopher neatly sidestepped your question about whether he'd read the curriculum. I don't think he has. I have. It is a well balanced curriculum which is prepared by experts; experts representing, in the history field for example, various schools of thought about Australian history. And what this shows to me, what this underlines to me, is that frankly politicians should not be writing the curriculum, Labor or Liberal. We have appointed a very well balanced, very well respected panel of experts to develop this curriculum. Christopher has indicated, on the sorry day he ever would become Education Minister, that he would review the curriculum and rewrite it. Now, that is completely inappropriate.
KELLY:
Okay.
BOWEN:
And just quickly, Fran, Christopher's comments about 'this is all spin', I mean, the Howard Government talked about a national curriculum; Julie Bishop talked about a national curriculum for years. We've actually done it. As you say, it's been trialled in 150 schools.
KELLY:
Okay, I want to move on from the curriculum to health but just before we do that, Christopher, just briefly, Christopher Pyne, just to answer that question, have you had a look, a close look, and read the history curriculum?
PYNE:
Well, of course I have, Fran. I have read through the national curriculum, otherwise I wouldn't have been commenting on it. The suggestion that I would not read the national curriculum and then go out and comment on it was so juvenile.
KELLY:
Okay.
BOWEN:
Well, we note your comments.
PYNE:
No, you haven't, Chris.
KELLY:
Okay. Gentlemen, we're going to run out of time if we don't move on.
Chris Bowen, I want to talk to you about the next big policy release coming from the Prime Minister today, which is health policy. Now, already, I think, Christopher Pyne touched on this, others have worried about the quick rollout of the national curriculum. One comment I read was, someone said it's 'got a touch of the Garretts' about it. If you can't handle an insulation rollout, what makes you think you can handle the complex issue of hospital and health reform?
BOWEN:
Well Fran, I'm not going to pre-empt what the Prime Minister says today. The Prime Minister will have a very significant announcement to make later in the day about health.
Let me say that I've noted Christopher's comments. For example, Tony Abbott believes in a very radical health plan. He argued for one in Opposition. And before he's even seen our health plan, he's come out and opposed it in 'Dr No' mode, as Christopher has. It doesn't matter what this Government comes up with, the Opposition will say, 'No, terrible idea' because they're in Dr No mode.
Now, this will be a very significant day for health reform and frankly, for economic reform because health reform is so important to economic reform in this country.
KELLY:
Okay, let me stop you there.
BOWEN:
It's a significant day and a big reform.
KELLY:
Christopher Pyne, this allegation's coming from the Government across all Ministers at the moment about Tony Abbott being Dr No and the Opposition doing nothing but just criticising even before you've seen the detail.
PYNE:
Well Fran, that is the Government's new line for the election campaign. They want to try and –
KELLY:
Is it fair enough, though? I mean, Tony Abbott did promise to be more oppositionist.
PYNE:
Well, they want to somehow try and blame the Opposition for being unable to deliver their program, but I think the public elect the Government; they expect the Government to get on and do the thing that they promised.
Now, there'll be a big health announcement today. Another announcement. Let's wait and see if there's any actual follow through. There was going to be a referendum, of course, in July last year if the states didn't hand over their health systems. They have moved dramatically away from that promise.
And as I said before, let's see what the delivery is. The Government is very good at the sound bites and the television visits and going to the supermarkets, and now they seem to be spending a lot of time in schools doing announcements there. But let's actually see what the delivery is on the ground.
KELLY:
Okay.
PYNE:
A lot of people would actually think, Fran, that there were computers in schools for all the Year Nines to Year 12s. There are about 250,000 out of a million promised.
KELLY:
Alright, I'm going to stop you there because we'll get to the schools rollout another day. But that sounded like a yes on the no front.
But we're now trying to get some balance into this session so every week we're going to alternate who gets the last word. Last week it was Christopher Pyne. Chris Bowen, it's your turn to wrap.
BOWEN:
A big day for economic and health reform in Australia, Fran, and a day I think, which despite Chris' rhetoric, we'll be seeing as the beginning of a very coordinated action approach to health reform in this country.
KELLY:
Chris Bowen and Christopher Pyne, thank you very much for joining us this Wednesday morning on Polls Apart.
BOWEN:
Always a pleasure.