SUBJECTS: WorkChoices, climate change, Tony Abbott
FRAN KELLY:
It's time for Polls Apart and joining us this Wednesday morning on RN Breakfast, our regular resident pollies, out and about today in their electorates shoring up their votes. From the safe Sydney Labor seat of Prospect, Chris Bowen, and from the marginal Liberal Adelaide seat of Sturt, Christopher Pyne.
Good morning to you both.
CHRIS BOWEN:
Good morning, Fran. Good morning, Christopher.
CHRISTOPHER PYNE:
Good morning, Chris.
KELLY:
Christopher Pyne, to you first: IR. Now, IR was a vote killer for the Coalition at the last election. WorkChoices killed off John Howard's Government. Why is your leader Tony Abbott going for broke on IR suddenly this week?
PYNE:
Because industrial relations will be another example at the next election of Labor's broken promises, Fran. If you're an aged care worker, then you are facing a cut of $300 a week in your take home pay. If you are a hospitality worker you are facing a cut of $3 an hour. If you are a small businessperson, you're facing the prospect of your business potentially closing, especially after hours or on weekends because you won't be able to afford to pay the new requirements under Labor's laws. And Labor promised at the last election that no worker would be worse off, no business would be worse off and the unions would not get more power, and the opposite has happened in all of those areas, so -
KELLY:
Chris Bowen, there's no walking away from that. Broken promises is the thing that keeps dogging the Rudd Government at the moment and Christopher Pyne just read out a whole long list of broken promises on IR.
BOWEN:
Well, Fran, I'm more than happy to have a list of our election promises met compared with any previous Government, most particularly the Howard Government. I mean, we have met election promise after election promise.
KELLY:
Really? There are still a lot pending. Hospitals, ETS…
BOWEN:
Well, there's a lot underway, there's a lot underway. I mean, ETS, we went to the election with a commitment to do it. So did the Opposition. The Opposition said, ‘Isn't it terrible the Government's not meeting its election commitments?' and then they block us when we try to meet our election commitments in the Senate. So if hypocrisy was a crime, the Liberal Party would be doing time, Fran.
But I'm more than happy to talk about industrial relations and WorkChoices. On the day Tony Abbott became Leader of the Liberal Party, he said, ‘The phrase WorkChoices is dead'. What does that mean? The substance is alive and kicking. We've seen Tony Abbott – very explicitly – Julie Bishop and Shadow Ministers saying that the key elements of WorkChoices are alive. Now, they can't say, ‘WorkChoices the name is dead – don't worry about the name – but the substance is still there'.
Now, the fact is that WorkChoices had a deleterious impact on the working conditions of Australians. They voted on it and we have met our commitment to tear it up.
KELLY:
Christopher? Let's bring in Christopher here, because I was talking to Michelle Grattan earlier; we were both still a bit confused about what the Opposition's policy is, moving forward, on penalty rates. Julie Bishop seemed to say quite clearly earlier in the week that, you know, that penalty rates need to be scrapped in some businesses. Joe Hockey says yesterday penalty rates stay. What is the policy?
PYNE:
Well, Joe Hockey and Tony Abbott have both made it absolutely clear that penalty rates are not at issue under the Coalition, but we will release full policy details for how to bring about flexibility in the workforce, to increase productivity and growth and employment at the appropriate time before the election.
Can I just say on -
KELLY:
Flexibility, though, is one of those words where it just, you know, signals in big flashing lights, ‘some losers', doesn't it? Flexibility means some people have to give up something.
PYNE:
No, no. Chris Bowen talked about hypocrisy. The hypocrisy of Labor's position at the moment is that they claim that the Liberal Party will bring back independent contracts, statutory contracts between employers and employees, when in fact the Government's independent statutory contracts between employers and employees are still in place for years into the future. So Labor has not scrapped the central piece of the Coalition's previous policy, which is the ability between an employer and an employee to negotiate their own arrangements.
KELLY:
There is a plan to phase that out, though, isn't there?
PYNE:
Well, if it's such a terrible thing, if it's such a ghastly, evil creature, why hasn't it been put down when Labor first had the chance? Now, the truth is that Labor's policy has placed the union movement back in the centre of the action and that's why we're seeing increasing strikes, massive increases in salaries like those on the north-west shelf of Western Australia that aren't being matched with productivity.
And Chris Bowen said that we were blocking their policies in the Senate. In fact, we're trying to make them keep their election promises by not allowing them to means test the private health insurance rebate. The promise they made at the election was they wouldn't touch private health insurance one jot or one tiddle, and we're trying to make sure they keep their election promises.
KELLY:
Okay. We all know about core and non-core promises, but -
BOWEN:
Put an ETS through, Christopher. Let us meet our election commitment which, by the way, was the same election commitment you went to the people with and you walked away from.
PYNE:
Chris Bowen made the point in Parliament last week, Fran, that the public didn't expect politicians to keep their promises, only the general thrust of what they'd said at the election. They're his own words, in the Hansard.
BOWEN:
And I was pointing out that you were blocking us meeting our commitments. I was pointing out that the number of commitments we've met, which is very substantial, and the number that we're trying to implement, which you are blocking us from implementing.
KELLY:
Okay, well -
PYNE:
[Inaudible] caught red handed with the view of the Labor Party, which is make the promises to win the election before 2007 and if you keep them, that's neither here nor there. As Peter Garrett said before the last election, ‘When we get in, change it all'.
KELLY:
It's 8.12 on RN Breakfast. Our guests, our regular resident pollies on Polls Apart: Chris Bowen and Christopher Pyne.
Chris Bowen, just before we move off IR, though, has Christopher Pyne, has he sort of hit the nerve there for Labor, this theme of union movement back into the centre of the action? Is that, could that be a trap for Labor? What looks like a gift, Tony Abbott leading on IR, could end up being a trap?
BOWEN:
Well, they tried this last time, Fran. You remember the grainy ads, the pictures of us all being dragged across the TV screen like we're all sinister union officials, all thugs. I was in one and, you know, people who'd never worked for a trade union in their life were in them, like Craig Emerson and Wayne Swan. I mean, it was a big massive scare campaign at the last election. No doubt they'll try it again. I think people passed judgement on that last time and I think they'll pass judgement again.
KELLY:
Christopher Pyne: Tony Abbott. The polls are trending the Coalition's way to some degree; Tony Abbott's popularity rising, Kevin Rudd's falling. Is Tony Abbott enjoying a honeymoon here? Is that how you see this?
PYNE:
Look, I think the Australian public know Tony Abbott very well, and as a consequence–
KELLY:
So he doesn't need a honeymoon?
PYNE:
Well, as a consequence, I just don't think you get a honeymoon in politics when you're very well known. I mean, honeymoons tend to attract themselves to new leaders who are unknown and the public are having a look at them. But Tony Abbott is not an unknown quantity in politics. I think the reason why Tony Abbott is a net positive in the polls at the moment is because he is seen to be a straight talking MP who says what he means and means what he says. And I think the difference between him and Kevin Rudd is he's quite palpable in that respect and people like to know where an MP stands. I think the era of spin is out and the era of -
BOWEN:
You're in big trouble then, Chris. Your job security is looking very threatened if the era of spin is over, mate.
PYNE:
Well, you know, you've always got to change with the times, Chris, which might be a problem for you.
KELLY: Never mind the era of spin, what about the era of overstatement, just to stay with Christopher Pyne for one second.
Do you worry that Tony Abbott might overstep the mark? His suggestion, for instance, that this hand back of $240 million to the TV networks for the TV licences is a bribe by the Government for positive election coverage. Now, that's a bit over the top, isn't it?
PYNE:
No, I don't. If there's a gold medal for hype and overstatement, it goes to Kevin Rudd, who has more first priority–
KELLY:
Do you really think the Government's trying to bribe the networks for the good coverage?
PYNE:
Well, I think in terms of the question of overstatement, I mean, Kevin Rudd is the one who's said on 22 occasions that climate change is the greatest moral challenge of our time. So great that in the last two weeks of sittings, the number of questions asked by the Labor Party themselves about it were 10 out of a possible 53. So the greatest moral challenge of our time was rather an overstatement.
Don't forget that when the GST was introduced, it was going to be fundamental injustice day, according to Kevin Rudd. So when we're talking about hype and overstatement, I think Kevin Rudd wins the gold medal on that occasion.
KELLY:
Chris Bowen, we'd better let you get a word in there.
BOWEN:
Well, Tony Abbott likes to say he's a straight talker. Maybe he was straight talking when he said that climate change was ‘absolute crap'. That's the sort of difference we see. Tony Abbott says one thing and then walks away, but we also see him, as you pointed out, Fran, almost daily now, accusing the Government of some sort of criminal culpability on some issue or another, whether it be insulation or commercial television or whatever it is.
Now, Tony Abbott, if he wants to be regarded as a serious alternative Prime Minister, needs to remember that in politics and in public affairs, what leaders say is very important.
KELLY:
Okay.
BOWEN:
He seems to talk before he thinks.
KELLY:
Now, we've got to go. Just a point for you, though, Chris Bowen: has Tony Abbott taken a lesson out of Kevin Rudd's 2007 campaign book, and he's throwing out a bit of policy here, a bit of policy there, quickly moving on, he's a moving target and Kevin Rudd's having trouble getting a beat on him?
BOWEN:
Well look, I wouldn't accept that, Fran. Look, Tony Abbott–
KELLY:
I didn't expect you would.
BOWEN:
Look, Tony Abbott is a very formidable political operator, as I've previously said. You don't become leader of a major political party in Australia without being a formidable political operator. But he's also a very erratic, irresponsible leader who has very little understanding of the fundamentals of one of the biggest challenges facing us, which is the state of the economy. And we're more than happy to fight Tony Abbott at the next election because we have a good story to tell and he will be running, I have no doubt, as he has done, baseless fear campaigns and pretending there are problems that can be fixed with no cost.
KELLY:
Okay. Christopher Pyne, a quick final word from you before we leave you today.
PYNE:
I think the issue today will be the Senate inquiry in Melbourne about the insulation pink batts scandal and Peter Garrett. That's not going to go away.
We now have Steve Conroy, the Minister for Good Times, the Minister for Mates, with more revelations of seemingly inappropriate appointments.
I think the Government's frontbench is unravelling and the Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd, needs to step in, do something about the Minister for the Environment and the Minister for Communications. That will be the issue of the day.
KELLY:
Okay. And they're Polls Apart, ladies and gentlemen.
BOWEN:
I'm glad the era of spin's over, Chris. That's terrible news.
KELLY:
Okay.
PYNE:
I keep copying you, Chris.
KELLY:
Hold it, hold it. Chris Bowen, Christopher Pyne, thank you very much for joining us again this week.