STEVE CANNANE:
Parliament is sitting for what is shaping up to be another key fortnight with an election due by May. Housing will undoubtedly be a key policy battle‑ground. There are 2 housing bills currently being held up before the parliament, the Build to Rent scheme and the Rent to Buy scheme. The new Minister for Housing and Homelessness is Clare O’Neil, and she joins us now on RN Breakfast. Welcome, Minister.
CLARE O’NEIL:
Good morning, Steve. So, good to be with you.
CANNANE:
You have just taken over one of the most important portfolios for both the country and also for the government. How will you measure whether you’re a success or not?
O’NEIL:
Well, you’re right, Steve. These are critical portfolios and I take them on at what I believe is a critical moment for the country. We’ve had housing affordability issues in Australia for 40 years, but the housing crisis has reached a really pivotal point. And at the same time, we’ve got the Albanese government saying that we are going to bring the Commonwealth back into the housing conversation for the first time in a decade. Now, the housing shortage across our country is affecting the lives of literally millions of Australians. It’s complicated, it’s long‑term. And I got into politics to exactly fix problems like this one. So, the things that we are looking to do is address those really serious problems that renters are facing at the moment. And if I’m concerned about one group in the community, it is those people stuck in the rental market who are desperate to buy their own homes. But of course, we want to get more Australians on that journey to home ownership, and these are the priorities and the focus areas for our government.
CANNANE:
So, the National Housing Accord has a target of 1.2 million homes over 5 years. Will you miss that target if you don’t get your Help to Buy and Build to Rent scheme through the parliament?
O’NEIL:
So, I’ll get to the schemes in a moment. Let me just speak quickly about this National Housing Accord. So, one of the most important things to understand about what’s going on in housing in Australia today is that the simple underlying problem is that we do not have enough homes in our country and we are not building them fast enough. So, our government has stepped into this space. We have invested in the time we’ve been in office, $32 billion in trying to address these issues. And it is coalescing around this commitment that all of the governments around the country have signed up to build 1.2 million homes over a period of 5 years. This is a big and ambitious target. And by the way, it’s coupled with really important supports that are going to help people with their housing issues right now. So, things like big increases to Commonwealth Rent Assistance.
CANNANE:
Okay. So, if you don’t get those schemes through the parliament, are you going to hit that target?
O’NEIL:
So, this is a really big and ambitious target, and the schemes that are before the parliament are an essential part of them. So, if I can just explain quickly to your listeners, one of the schemes that’s before the parliament is a scheme which will make the Commonwealth provide direct support for homeowners to enter the housing market for the first time. And this is targeted at all those young people out there who perhaps don’t have housing wealth in their families but want to access home ownership. The government can help them. But right now we’ve got a bill being blocked by the Greens and the Liberals in the Senate. The second bill is something called Build to Rent. So, this is really about making sure that we have faster construction of rental homes in our country. And I mentioned we have this really big problem with the housing shortage. This is going to build 160,000 additional homes over the coming decade and again being blocked by the Greens and the Liberals in the Senate.
CANNANE:
So, that’s the argument you’re putting, but with that Build to Rent scheme at a Senate hearing on Wednesday, the Property Council warned that in its current form, the legislation would be completely ineffective in attracting new investors. What do you say to that? They’re the people who know what’s going on in the property market.
O’NEIL:
Well, I’d say there’s lots of people who are, you know, needing to talk their book fair and the Property Council represents property developers and they’re entitled to come into committee hearings and say what they like.
CANNANE:
They develop property, which is what you need.
O’NEIL:
Sure. And what I can tell you is that the Treasury modelling for this bill tells us that we are going to have an additional 160,000 rental units online in a period of a decade. Now, if I just step back from this again, I want your listeners to understand we’ve got a massive housing crisis in our country. We need to put all of our efforts into making sure that we’re building more homes in our country and this is what our government is trying to do. One of the frustrations I have just coming in fresh to this space is that there’s a lot of really sort of low‑rent politics being played in all of this. We don’t want to get political outcomes in the parliament for political reasons. I want to see more Australians in housing and that is the big focus of our government.
CANNANE:
So, have you responded to the Greens because they say they’ve written to you urging to, quote, reverse the government’s decision to negotiate with the Greens on housing?
O’NEIL:
Well, I’ll certainly be talking to the Greens about their policy positions, but I can tell you that my focus is not on the politicians here and it’s not on the politics of this. It is about trying to get more homes for Australians. And I’d say again, there’s a lot of games being played in the parliament. I’m not interested in that. I don’t go to bed at night thinking about politicians and what they might say and what they might do. I think about the millions of Australians who need more housing, and our government’s single focus is on them, on addressing the rental crisis, on addressing issues with housing affordability, and making sure that more Australians can access home.
CANNANE:
On RN Breakfast, we’re talking to the Minister for Housing and Homelessness, Clare O’Neil. Labor has tried to distance itself from the CFMEU following the corruption scandal that has engulfed that union. Do you agree that the tactics of the CFMEU have added to building costs and therefore to the cost of housing?
O’NEIL:
There’s no question that the allegations around the CFMEU are absolutely disgraceful and appalling. We’ve seen reports of organised crime, bikies, stand‑over tactics, harassment, all these kinds of things.
CANNANE:
And have they added to the cost of housing, do you think?
O’NEIL:
Look, to be honest, Steve, there’s lots of different pieces of analysis that I’ve seen, none of which are regarded as particularly robust. And there’s reasons to believe that it may have an impact and reasons to believe that it isn’t having an impact. I don’t think that honestly particularly matters right now. The big issue for us is that we have got a union that is corrupt and our government is taking the strongest action possible –
CANNANE:
But it does matter –
O’NEIL:
We will introduce legislation today to take action to make sure that that union is brought back into line.
CANNANE:
And we do know that. But if it has added to the housing costs, it does matter. And Peter Dutton has said that the CFMEU has added 30 per cent to the cost of major projects.
O’NEIL:
And then, of course, of course it matters. And of course, it’s important. What I’m saying is –
CANNANE:
I just want –
O’NEIL:
What the government does from here is take strong action against that union. And that is exactly what the Minister is doing. We will need support from other parties. But today, he will introduce legislation that will enable him, if he chooses to do so, to put that union into administration.
CANNANE:
But the former head of the ACCC, Rod Sims, has also said: ‘If someone said the behaviour of the union was pushing up costs by 30 per cent, that would not surprise me’. That suggests that real experts in the field have been saying it has had an influence on housing costs.
O’NEIL:
Yeah, and there are lots of pieces of analysis and it is entirely possible that there are elements of what that are adding to construction costs. What I’m saying to you is the important thing is that there is one course that the government is focused on here and that is making sure that we take appropriate action and strong action against that union. If it is having that impact on construction costs, then we may see an impact there.
CANNANE:
Minister, on another issue, we understand the Labor caucus will get a briefing today on the Communication Minister’s proposals for a partial ban on gambling advertising and other reforms around online gambling. And that Cabinet was due to discuss this. Would it be a betrayal to your friend Peta Murphy’s legacy, if the recommendations of her committee weren’t adopted?
O’NEIL:
Look, Steve, we’re really concerned about what’s going on with gambling advertising and we’re looking at this at the moment and we’re talking to stakeholders and the Minister is bringing forward proposals. So, I’ll wait to be briefed by her properly before we respond.
CANNANE:
Peta Murphy’s husband, Rod Glover, has spoken to the Nine newspapers and said: ‘This is the closest thing that she’ll ever get to being in Cabinet. So, she won’t be in the room, but for the people in the room, I hope they’re imagining that she is’. Do you think those words will carry weight in the decision‑making of the government?
O’NEIL:
Well, absolutely. And, you know, Peta Murphy was a friend of mine and a friend to, you know, a dear friend of many people in the caucus, as indeed is her husband, Rod Glover. Look, we think about Peta a lot. She’s a big motivator for us in parliament and there was no stronger advocate for these reforms than Peta Murphy. We’ll be thinking of her. And I would say also that the commitment is there. We do need to do something about this problem and that’s why the government’s taking this so seriously.
CANNANE:
Minister, we’ll leave it there, but thanks very much for your time this morning.
O’NEIL:
Great. Thanks so much, Steve.
CANNANE:
Minister for Housing and Homelessness, Clare O’Neil.