Kieran Gilbert:
Let’s bring in the Housing Minister Clare O’Neil. Just to pick up on what we reported there, the Sky News Pulse, One Nation surging ahead among working class voters. Are the alarm bells ringing for the government?
Clare O’Neil:
I think the government’s really respectful of the experience that Australians are having right now and their thirst to have some of the big problems in their life answered. And that’s how I interpret these results. You know, something I see about our country is Australians are working harder than ever, they’re studying harder, they’re saving harder. Yet the things that seem to be attainable for previous generations aren’t attainable for them. And that’s something that our government’s really fiercely focused on addressing.
If I take my portfolio area of housing, I reckon that’s right in the guts of a lot of what’s going on in our country at the moment. We used to live in a country where home ownership was attainable for ordinary people. Increasingly that’s not the case. So, for Labor, our obligation here is to show people that we can fix some of the big problems in their lives. And you saw that with the Budget, some big shifts, not just on my area of housing, but also creating a better tax system for Australian workers so they keep more of what they earn.
Gilbert:
When we look at that number though, if we can put it on the screen, the working‑class voter. So, the primary vote now One Nation above Labor on primary, but on that sort of that cohort that would normally be a rusted‑on part of the Labor support base down 5 to 21 per cent, One Nation up 6 to 35. This, if you’d said this to me a year ago, I would have said you’re crazy. But these numbers, if they hold up, this has got to be a huge wake up call for the government.
O’Neil:
Look, I think it’s something we’re really focused on, Kieran. We’re focused on delivering for ordinary people and making sure that we rebuild broken systems in our country. I think there’s important messages –
Gilbert:
Are you losing the debate?
O’Neil:
I think there’s really important messages for the more right of politics. The disintegration of their political party is not helping things, but absolutely, we’ve got to be humble about this. There are messages here for Labor. The Australian people, I think in this One Nation vote are telling us that they see broken systems here that haven’t been addressed fiercely enough. And that’s one of the reasons for this recent federal Budget.
A federal Budget that makes some tough decisions for our country. If you think everything’s going perfectly in Australia right now, that probably wasn’t the budget for you, but that’s not what I see. I see a broken housing system, a budget that’s grappling with an ageing population, an NDIS, which isn’t working as it was intended, and additional defence needs –
Gilbert:
But are your messages –
O’Neil:
We’ve got to start addressing some of these problems.
Gilbert:
Are your messages clear enough? Because when Pauline Hanson speaks, you know what she’s saying. When Barnaby Joyce speaks, you know what he’s saying. Is the government clear in what you’re trying to do on housing? Is it clear enough? Because this morning I saw you on breakfast TV, you were copping some flack because you’re saying, do you want prices to go up or down? What is it? And I was like, I guess many viewers saying, what is it? Do you want it up or down?
O’Neil:
Yeah, well, I actually think I answered that question really clearly, which we can come to if you’d like, but I just – I think it’s incumbent on a good, centrist, stable government such as ours to show that we can deliver and we can deliver change. We’re for change here. The Coalition and indeed One Nation are actually for maintaining the status quo, and we see that with what happens in the parliament.
Now, I do think that if we do our jobs properly, Australians who are thinking about One Nation are going to start to look a little bit closer and ask themselves whether Pauline Hanson actually has the answers to the problems confronting our country. If I can bring you back to my area of housing, I do believe this is genuinely at the root of what’s going on in politics at the moment.
Well, there’s no one else in parliament who can give you a clear answer about what their approach is to housing, except for Labor. We are taking a completely comprehensive approach for a problem that has plagued our country for 40 years. Well, we’re stepping up and doing something about it and I do think we need to explain that really clearly to Australians. And as we get closer to an election and they’re actually thinking about the choice they’re going to make in a polling booth, I do think these realities become apparent.
Gilbert:
Have you got evidence that more first‑home buyers are getting access? I know it’s early days. The Prime Minister made an example, referred to one in parliament yesterday. Have you – and are you generating evidence to say these auctions are being populated by first‑home buyers, not investors?
O’Neil:
Yeah, I mean, I think that evidence is there for everyone to read about, you know, since I was born, it’s been pretty rare to pick up the paper on a Sunday morning and have the report of Saturday’s auctions be dominated by first‑home buyers winning and winning and winning, yet that’s what we’ve seen. Now, I don’t say that what we’re doing on tax solves the whole housing problems confronting the country, but surely everyone watching right now can see we’ve got a broken housing market at the moment that is hurting millions of people around our country and we can’t have a system anymore that tilts the scales so far away from our nation’s first‑home buyers.
Gilbert:
You’ve got just released some numbers saying 260,000 Australians have now accessed the 5 per cent deposit program. If you boost those numbers, do you believe you can shift that popular sentiment as well? Is that what – I mean, I know it’s not your key motivation, but if you can shift that public policy, will it shift the politics?
O’Neil:
Look, Kieran, I don’t play this for the politics. We’re actually here to try to reshape the opportunities available to Australians and help them realise their aspiration. And for most Australian families, the single biggest aspiration they will have in their lives is to get into a home of their own.
You mentioned the 5 per cent deposit program, remember, our government is not just levelling the scales between first time buyers and investors at auctions. We’re standing behind that young person who hasn’t bought a home before and saying we’re going to help you and back you into the market. So, that’s 260,000 Australians who have taken up that opportunity. That is an amazing thing for those families to have done and we’re 1000 per cent proud to have backed them in.
Gilbert:
And on that question in parliament yesterday, if you subdivide and you get a new home or build a new property on that, do you get a capital gains tax discount or is that a new – is that a new build?
O’Neil:
Yes, it’ll depend on whether it’s a new dwelling. And the Budget papers are really clear about this. We’re a pro‑supply government. We’re trying to encourage people to invest in new builds because that helps us with our national challenge. If you genuinely invest in something that adds to supply, then you will get access to negative gearing and your choice of the capital gains tax arrangement. The question I was asked about yesterday was about a granny flat. A granny flat does not meet that definition because it’s not genuinely a new dwelling. There is lots of detail out there on this in the Budget papers. So, one of the fact sheets has a handy table –
Gilbert:
But if you have an existing house, you subdivide. You have a proper subdivision, not a granny flat, but subdivision, new house. You can claim the new house, not the old house.
O’Neil:
If it’s a new dwelling, a new dwelling that can be bought and sold in the normal way, then you will be eligible for the new tax arrangements. This is about adding to supply for our country. So, if you knock down a house and you build 2 homes, if you buy an apartment off the plan, then you’ll be eligible for the new –
Gilbert:
And the person buying that property would also be available – that would be available to the person purchasing that new property?
O’Neil:
Yes. So, it would be available if there’s a contract of sale for that new property. And so, they just need to have purchased the property in the first 12 months.
Gilbert:
Okay, so but the existing house wouldn’t, the new house would?
O’Neil:
Well, if the existing house is – so, people who own a home can negatively gear that property. If you own your home already, you can still access those old arrangements. This is about looking prospectively.
Gilbert:
Okay, so that’s the new build. But if you knock down the old one and have 2 new builds, you can claim it on both?
O’Neil:
You can, yeah. So, this is all about being pro‑supply. We want people to invest in new housing because we’ve got a housing crisis, you know, in large part because we haven’t been building enough homes. So, we want to build more housing. That’s why the tax arrangements are available to new builds.
Gilbert:
Housing Minister Clare O’Neil, thank you, appreciate your time.