Natalie Barr:
New research has found most voters believe the government should try to cut spending instead of making changes to negative gearing, capital gains tax and trusts. A new survey in the Australian Financial Review has found the changes to capital gains tax discount is the least popular part of the new Budget with a net support rating of zero. The next least popular was limiting the future of negative gearing, which had a net approval rating of just 7 per cent. This comes as Matt Comyn, the CEO of the Commonwealth Bank, suggests the new capital gains tax changes should only apply to non-passive assets like housing. For their take, let’s bring in Housing Minister Clare O’Neil and Liberal Senator Michaelia Cash. Good morning to you. So, Clare, according to this survey, just to explain it, when it comes to the capital gains tax overhaul, 36 per cent support it, 36 per cent oppose it. That’s how they get the net approval rating of zero. Does that level of division, I guess concern you?
Clare O’Neil:
Look, Nat, I’ve had a look at the survey results and what they show is that lots of people are supportive of what the government is doing and then some people don’t support what the government’s doing. That is what you’d expect to see in a budget that does some tough but necessary things for the country. And I’d say to people at home, you know, if you’re looking around Australia and thinking everything’s going perfectly right now, maybe this is not the Budget for you, but that’s not what I see. I see a country with a broken housing market, a budget that is heaving with the weight of an ageing population, additional defence needs and a National Disability Insurance Scheme that’s not working properly for the country. And finally, a government that’s willing to stand up and say we need to make some hard calls about this. Now, in politics, you don’t do the popular thing, you do the right thing – that is our obligation as politicians for this country. And that’s what this Budget is all about. Some rebalancing of the tax system to make sure that we can give workers out there a break, some tax cuts for every single Australian worker, and some big changes to housing that will, you know, do some hard things but get many more Australians into first home ownership, which is something that I fiercely believe in. So yes, it’s a difficult budget, but it is the tough and necessary thing we need to do for Australia.
Barr:
Michaelia, does this alarm you, this survey? Because you’ve got just as many people supporting it as opposed to it. And interestingly, it found that 50 per cent of people believed it was ok to break a promise if it was a, ‘tough decision in the national interest’, compared to 37 per cent who didn’t like it. That should concern your party, shouldn’t it?
Michaelia Cash:
Well, I think what’s clear is the more Australians hear about these toxic taxes that the Anthony Albanese government is proposing, the more they don’t like them. I mean, what they’re saying to young Australians in particular, who can’t afford to get into the housing market but are trying to do the right thing by their future. You know, they’re investing in shares, they’re investing in ETFs and other assets. They’re aspirational, they want to save their housing, their deposit. The Albanese government is now saying, we want to take a greater share of that. This is nothing more and nothing less than a tax on aspiration, a tax on, you know, Australians taking risk, and a tax on innovation. And Nat, that is not the Australia that I think most people want to live in.So, I’d say to Mr Albanese, listen to Australians, listen to businesses, listen to economists, they are all telling you the same thing – axe the toxic taxes and go back to the drawing board. And I mean Nat, when our government is now scrambling to make changes to its tax policy, but a week or 2 after the election, perhaps it wasn’t the right tax policy in the first place. But I will never tax aspiration, I will never tax risk taking and I will never, ever tax innovation, because they are the 3 things which has made this country the great country that it is. So, axe the toxic taxes Clare, go back to the drawing board, admit that you’re wrong. Admit that you’re wrong, go back to the drawing board and, quite frankly, apologise to Australians.
Barr:
I’m not sure people are saying what you think they’re saying, Michaela. I think they’re saying it’s basically 50–50 on the capital gains tax changes in this survey. But let’s go back to you, Clare. We do have the head of Australia’s biggest bank, Matt Comyn, the head of the Commonwealth Bank, saying he supports part of what you’re saying, but that the capital gains tax changes should be on passive assets, which should be on housing instead of startups, small business, on shares because it will stifle new business in this country. Do you see his point?
O’Neil:
Look, there’s a lot that I agree with Matt Comyn on. One of the most important points that he made last night is that Australian workers are not getting a fair go in our tax system. And that’s why we’re rebalancing a bit the way wealth is taxed in Australia and giving that back to Australian workers through tax cuts. So, if you’re watching at home and you’re someone that gets paid by a paycheck, like the majority of Australians, you are getting a tax cut out of this Budget, the fifth tax cut that our government has executed on. Now, Matt, did make some comments about other aspects of the Budget with regard to small business –
Barr:
What do you think about them?
O’Neil:
Yeah, so let me just remind viewers, we’ve got 4 big generous concessions that apply to small business with regard to the capital gains tax –
Barr:
We’ve held a business for over 15 years, if you’re 55. So, those ones –
O’Neil:
I accept what you’re saying, and I just say to people at home, I grew up in a small business household. Both of my parents actually ran their own separate small businesses. And I understand the blood, sweat and tears that go into these and building them up. Our government is consulting with small business at the moment about how these tax changes will affect them. And we’re doing that in really good faith. In fact, we were doing it before the federal Budget. So, we’ll work this through and we’ll get the right outcome for that.
Barr:
Okay, so there’s a chance that you might carve out more for small businesses other than the startups and the tech sector?
O’Neil:
Well look, Nat, it’s a bit complicated, but the way that the new tax arrangements will work will not really work well for things that, for businesses that start with a value of zero. So, I don’t want to get too much into the tax complexities, but for people who build up a business from literally nothing to a very big business over a short period of time, these tax arrangements are not going to work perfectly for them. But we understood that before the Budget. It’s actually in the Budget papers, Nat –
Barr:
Because they are the ones screaming.
O’Neil:
But we’re going to work through and consult with business on this and that’s exactly what a good government would do. We do need to make these changes, but we’ll do it in a way that’s fair to everyone.
Barr:
Ok, Michaelia, they say they’re in consultation. Is that good enough for you?
Cash:
Fifty times before the election, the Prime Minister looked the Australian people in the eye. He looked mum and dads in the eye, he looked young Australians in the eye who just want to get ahead. And in direct response to, ‘will you be making any changes to negative gearing and CGT?’ the Prime Minister said ‘no’. He blatantly lied to the Australian people. They are now seeing what is the result of that lie. A government that wants to tax aspiration. A government that wants a stake in your future. I don’t want the government to have a stake in your future. I want you to have a stake in your future. So, if the government, like Clare, is so confident that this is the right thing to do, well, I look forward, Clare, to you agreeing that these changes do need to go to a Senate committee. And, and let’s go around Australia and let’s ask Australians what they think of them because this is nothing more and nothing less than a broken promise. A broken promise that the Prime Minister made 50 times before the election. So, I now look forward, if the Prime Minister is so confident in his tax changes, let’s explore them via the Senate committee process. Because as far as I can see, a tax on aspiration, a tax on innovation and a tax on risk taking, that’s just taking a stake in an Australian’s future. I want them to have a stake in their own future, not this Prime Minister.
Barr:
Look, tell us what you think today because this poll is just saying way more people support a broken promise if it’s good for the country than don’t. And they’re about to go through tomorrow, a lot of it –
Cash:
This is not good for the country, Nat.
Barr:
And that’s what you say. And we’re asking the people of Australia to text in –
Cash:
It’s not what I’m saying, Nat. It’s what Australians are saying.
Barr:
Well, some of them, and we’re asking people their opinion this morning. So we’ll get people to text in. Thank you both, we’ll see you next week.