Peter Stefanovic:
You’re watching First Edition, folks. Good to have your company this morning. Well, government spending is at record levels, real wages are going backwards, young folks can’t buy a home and the RBA is now forecasting the worst medium term economic growth ever. Well, let’s bring in the Tuesday morning panel. That’s the Assistant Treasurer, Dan Mulino, the Shadow Home Affairs Minister, Jonathon Duniam. Good morning to you both. So, all of those points are on your watch, Dan.
Daniel Mulino:
Hi Pete. Well, thanks for having me on. Well, look, what’s happened on our watch is that inflation when we came to office was over 6 per cent and rising and now it has a 3 in front of it. And a big part of that is due to the fact that we’ve substantially improved the budget bottom line.
The nominal turnaround on the trajectory that we inherited has been an improvement of more than $230 billion. That’s the biggest nominal improvement since Federation. So, that’s a significant improvement in the bottom line. And we’ve achieved that through savings.
Stefanovic:
Well, you’re making savings but you’re spending the savings at record levels as well, aren’t you?
Mulino:
Well, so what we’re doing is looking at some of the structural issues. We have significant reforms when it comes to aged care, when it comes to the NDIS, and as I said, we’ve significantly improved the budget bottom line. And look, ultimately politics is a choice and for all of this discussion we’ve been having in the parliament on spending, if you look at the choice that people faced at the last election, the Opposition is now using spending as a metric, but they took a bigger spending, bigger taxing, bigger deficit agenda to the last election and that’s the choice that the Australian population faces.
Stefanovic:
You don’t admit that you’ve got a spending problem?
Mulino:
We are managing the budget in such a way that we are constantly working on spending and as I said, we’re dealing with that through finding saves. We’ve banked a significant proportion of the fiscal uplift and we’re dealing with some of those big structural issues like aged care, like NDIS. And that’s difficult reform, that’s long‑term reform. The other thing we need to do is to increase the speed limit of the economy. That’s something the Reserve Bank has said, that’s something the Governor has said at a number of public hearings.
That’s something which the Productivity Commission has said. So, we’ve got a whole bunch of reforms to lift the speed limit of the economy, including passing the EPBC Act reforms, freezing the National Construction Code. Lifting productivity growth is going to be absolutely critical to dealing with some of these cost pressures in the medium to long term.
Stefanovic:
All right, you can’t really argue against this, Jono, because your own house is on fire at the moment.
Jonathon Duniam:
Just because there are some interesting discussions taking place doesn’t mean we can’t hold this government to account, and indeed we should. That’s why we’re here. But I mean, for everything that was just said around getting spending under control and percentage this and dot points that, honestly, at the end of the day, where the rubber hits the road is the fact that households are doing it harder than ever before. Interest rates for mortgage holders are going up. The Reserve Bank Governor has pointed to government spending as a driver for that.
Power bills are harder than they’ve ever been before. So, for all the great things that are said about what this government’s doing, people are not high fiving one another at the dining table at the end of the month thinking, yes, look, we’re on top of things. They’re screaming out for help and this government keeps talking in circles, spending more, saying that there are good reasons for it, but that’s why I’m here, is to hold this mob to account. And that’s what we’ve got to do.
Stefanovic:
Will Angus Taylor be making a move on Sussan Ley’s leadership this week?
Duniam:
You’d have to ask Angus that very question. Frankly, as I said to you before, we’re here to do one job and I’ve made no secret of the fact, and I think history bears this out. Every time a political party, be it Liberal or Labor, find themselves at the position we’re at in the polls right now, it is accompanied by heated speculation around leadership. So, this is not some sort of new, surprising territory. It just goes with the territory we’re in now and, God willing, we can get through it quickly and get on with the job.
Stefanovic:
But does Taylor need to make a move, though, to put up or shut up, so to speak, and put this thing to bed and then move on to policy?
Duniam:
Well, I think Australians want us to get on with the job. And so if there’s anyone out there that wants to have a crack at the leadership, then say so and let’s get on with the job. I mean, Australians are wanting us as an Opposition, to hold a woeful government to account. We had an interest rate increase last week. It passed with barely a mention in the media because we were talking about ourselves. So, this week, I very much hope we can put to bed all of this speculation and start holding this woeful, woeful, woeful government.
Stefanovic:
So, ending that speculation, I mean the thing that’s going to do that is a spill, is it not?
Duniam:
Well, a spill or people declaring that there is not going to be a spill. I mean that, like I can’t speak for other people. If there is an intention for leadership to change, then people need to make their views clear. If they’re not going to, they need to rule it out.
Stefanovic:
Does Taylor have enough to succeed in your view? When it comes to votes?
Duniam:
I haven’t been counting numbers for anyone, can I tell you. So, I can’t answer that question. As I say, when we’re at the low point in the polls that we are, this speculation reaches fever pitch. That’s where it’s at now. There’s a lot being talked about. But again, I tell you, the people that are most sick about this, of this sort of stuff being talked about are not the people in this building, it’s everyone outside who seem to feel forgotten in this set of debates.
Stefanovic:
But if there is a spill, who would you vote for?
Duniam:
Well, there’s no spill and look, being speculative about hypotheticals is not something I’m willing to go into today. Let’s see, if something happens we’ll have that conversation again. I’ll come back on your program and answer that question. But at the moment, there isn’t a spill.
Stefanovic:
Okay. I mean the reality is, and thanks for being patient, Dan. I mean the reality is, I mean all those points, all the problems that we’ve got with our economy, I mean. Yeah, and I forgot to mention energy at the top of it. I mean it’s disastrous at the moment. The sorts of bills that we’re paying. You guys are getting away with it at the moment.
Mulino:
I’d say with energy we have a plan when it comes to bringing much more energy into the grid and we’ve seen that reflected in wholesale prices. A significant downward pressure on wholesale prices as a result of the grid‑scale solar coming in. We’ve also got massive changes when it comes to household batteries, when it comes to electric vehicles.
Look, the thing we need to do as a country is to position ourselves for the long‑term transition for net zero. It’s very disappointing that the opposition has stepped away from the commitment that so much of the rest of the world has in terms of what we need to do for this planet.
Stefanovic:
Alright, I’m just going to close out. Back to you, Jono and your role, Shadow Home Affairs. These protests last night in Sydney and there have been protests in other parts of the country as well, Brisbane, Melbourne as well, protesting the presence here of the Israeli President, Isaac Herzog. What’s your view on it?
Duniam:
Oh, I think it’s deeply displeasing to see. I mean, this is a man who, as head of the Jewish state, has come to Australia to show solidarity with the people here from his diaspora. I think he summed it up beautifully when he went through all of the events that led to Bondi and how they were the prelude to what was ultimately the worst act of terror on our soil in our history.
And to see those protests in the wake of that, I think is something that most Australians would be most disappointed about. Everyone’s for peaceful protest, but some of the things being said, some of the placards being waved about, do not fit in the category of peaceful protest. They’re frankly disgusting.
Stefanovic:
Yeah, they happen in your city of Melbourne too, Dan. I mean, did these protesters have it coming?
Mulino:
Well, so what I would say, and look, I’d agree with Jono in the sense that this is an important visit for Australia’s Jewish community, for the survivors, for families of victims, and I think it’s a time where we should be seeking as much national unity as possible. Look, of course I support the right to protest. I would just encourage any people seeking to protest and the organisers of protests, to work things through with police in advance and to undertake those protests in a respectful and peaceful manner.
Stefanovic:
Dan Mulino, Jonathon Duniam, Appreciate your time as always. We’ll chat to you again soon.