Peter Stefanovic:
You’re with First Edition, folks. Thanks for your company. 250 billion over 50 years is expected to be the economic benefit of a major high‑speed rail project that the Albanese government wants to push ahead with. It will no doubt help connect the regions with the cities in a much faster and convenient way. But it will not be finished before the 2040s.
Joining us live now is the Assistant Treasurer, Dan Mulino, the Shadow Home Affairs Minister, Jonathon Duniam. Good morning to you both. So we’ll start the before we get into other topics – what’s this all going to cost, Dan?
Daniel Mulino:
Well, morning, Pete, and thanks for having me on this morning. So, look, this is a really exciting project, and I think when we look around the world, we see that many advanced economies through Europe, through Asia, Japan, China and in many other parts of the world have high‑speed rail as a key transport option. But also it’s a really significant development option. And when we look in Australia we see that the Newcastle‑Sydney route is a really high‑population density route and also one with a significant amount of population growth. So this is one where it makes perfect sense to have a really detailed look at high‑speed rail. And this $230 million that Catherine King is announcing today will enable the government to undertake detailed project specification work, detailed design work and scoping so that we have a really clear understanding of how best to deliver that.
Stefanovic:
Okay, but what’s it going to cost? A hundred, 150, 200 billion?
Mulino:
Well, I think with any large, complex infrastructure project you’ve got to do the design work upfront. And that’s exactly why we’re going to invest this $230 million. And that builds on other money this government’s has already put in that now totals over 650 –
Stefanovic:
So you don’t know? You don’t know yet?
Mulino:
Well, no, and you can’t just throw numbers around until you’ve done that design work. We’ve seen with other projects in the past, when you start work too early and without that design, you end up with cost blowouts and with poorly designed projects.
Stefanovic:
Yeah, no doubt they’ll come. Look, it is nation building stuff, though, and we really should have started it in the 80s, Jonno, but do you support pressing forward on this?
Jonathon Duniam:
Well, it’s a great project, great idea in terms of being able to link the nation up with high‑speed rail. I think a former government might have talked about this as well. But I think the key question here is that while it’s important to build these things, it’s also important to be able to pay for them. We’re talking about chucking around a cool quarter of a billion dollars to download the instruction manual for this thing and figure out how much it’s going to cost. But understanding where the money comes from to pay for this vital infrastructure is equally important. We’re about to tick over a trillion dollars of debt for this country, and they’re now talking about this multi multi‑billion‑dollar project. They should, as well as talk about the project, how they’re going to pay for it, because it’s either going to be borrowing more or taxing more, and our Assistant Treasurer here might be able to give us some light on that.
Stefanovic:
Have you worked out what’s going to be public, what’s going to be private spending yet, Dan?
Mulino:
Well, what I’d say is fortunately, total debt is over $170 billion less as a result of our budget management. So that’s a really good thing –
Stefanovic:
But, hang on – yeah, yeah, yeah – but now we’re getting to the other argument about saving, but then how much are you spending? Because it’s just being offset, isn’t it?
Mulino:
No, no. But, look, I think with this project, when it comes to the details of how much it’s going to cost precisely or how you weave the private sector in, that’s why we have to spend the $230 million. So it’s not, as flippantly was described by Jonno, a user manual; this is absolutely critical work that you need on this big, complex projects. If you don’t invest upfront, you’re going to pay for it in spades down the track, and that’s why this government is doing this methodically and sensibly.
Stefanovic:
Okay. You got those savings, but how much extra are you spending, Dan? Have you got that figure?
Mulino:
Look, this government has delivered 2 surpluses. This government has a fiscal envelope which is $233 billion lower than the trajectory we inherited. So, look, this budget is in much better shape than the trajectory we inherited.
Stefanovic:
Okay. Hey, can I ask, Dan, I’m curious about an essay that former Liberal MP Keith Wolahan published yesterday. A whole bunch of ideas floated, one of them about negative gearing in which he thought it a good idea to limit investors to one established property but 5 new dwellings, which could help drive new builds. What do you think of that idea?
Mulino:
Well, look, could I just say Keith and I were on the House Economics Committee together and I’ve got a lot of respect for Keith Wolahan. I haven’t read that essay and the specific ideas, so I wouldn’t want to comment.
Stefanovic:
Right.
Mulino:
But just on tax, I’ve said on a number of occasions, we’ve got very clear tax policies which include tax cuts for every Australian which will come through in this year’s budget and the next one and all the other measures. So that’s our focus.
Stefanovic:
Okay. Just a final one, just in your space, Jonathon, look, we’ve heard from Tony Burke already on the ISIS brides and he says that the government is still not helping, although passports are being issued. But he says no other information is going to be released because it’s not in the public interest. I would have thought all of this is in the public interest. Where are you on that this morning?
Duniam:
Well, all of that is in the public interest. And there are certain elements – national security elements, intelligence briefings, of course – that perhaps are the kind of thing that you don’t want to disclose publicly, or private information about individuals, but the more on the public record the better. And, indeed, when we are briefed, I will be making very clear that I think it is important to ensure public concerns are allayed by more information being put on the record. There are so many questions to be answered here. Chris Minns is doing a good job of telling us exactly what this government is up to by supporting the return of these ISIS brides.
Stefanovic:
Yes.
Duniam:
But Tony Burke is not being forthcoming about this information –
Stefanovic:
Yeah, well, nor is the Victorian Premier. Has she got to come clean, Dan?
Mulino:
What I’d say here is that the federal government is operating under laws that the previous government established, and we’re doing so on the advice of national security agencies. So, look, I do find it a bit rich the Opposition criticising processes that they set up. And, of course, we always have to be careful how much information we disclose about individual cases, but what I can stress is that in each of these cases we’re looking at them case by case, and the minister is acting on the advice of national security agencies, as did previous governments.
Stefanovic:
Okay. We’ll leave it there. Jacinta Allan actually is coming up in about half an hour’s time. She’s got a press conference, so maybe she’ll be asked about that today. I would have thought so. Dan Mulino, Jonathon Duniam, good to talk, as always. We’ll chat to you against next week.