Peter Stefanovic:
The government looks set to adjust the capital gains tax settings by favoring an inflation‑linked tax rather than a discount moving beyond this Budget. Well, joining us live this morning is the Assistant Treasurer, Dan Mulino. There is a fair bit of confusion over what might or might not be announced, Dan. But is this part of your plans, to at least go back to this older-style capital gains tax?
Daniel Mulino:
Well, morning, Pete, and thanks for having me on. Well, look, obviously, at this stage of the process, I’m not in a position to announce anything specific that’s in the Budget. I think what the Treasurer has indicated very clearly is that when it comes to taxation, the government has heard the message loud and clear from the community and from a range of commentators and experts in relation to tax that intergenerational fairness is one of the key goals that we should be striving for. And that has been one of the key themes that has been running through the budget discussions.
Stefanovic:
Given your experience, though, in economic matters, should it be grandfathered or not?
Mulino:
Well, again, I can’t comment on specifics, but what I can say is that there are a bunch of overarching principles when it comes to tax reform. One is equity, one is simplicity and one is economic efficiency. And I think you’re always judging those against each other and, where possible, achieving all 3. But I think what the Treasurer has made clear, and other members of the government, is that, look, we are looking at tax reform. I think there’s an opportunity in this Budget to implement some tax reform. I think any measures that are looked at would take account of the need to both achieve given policy goals – and, again, intergenerational fairness would be one of the central goals that we’ll be focusing on – but you always obviously have to look at the administration of it too.
Stefanovic:
Would shares be included with property?
Mulino:
Well, so, again, I can’t comment on specifics –
Stefanovic:
Come on, Dan.
Mulino:
But what I would say is that – but look what I can say is that, and I think more than is usually the case, I think the Treasurer has flagged that there have been a lot of specific considerations of tax reforms. And I think he’s been very upfront, but without getting into details, obviously.
Stefanovic:
All right, well, let’s move away from equity, then, and move to the question of fairness. Because if it isn’t grandfathered, how is that fair for someone who has played by the rules only to see the goalposts shift?
Mulino:
Well, look, I don’t want to get into hypotheticals about a whole range of different permutations in the way you might implement different tax ideas. But what I wanted to flag before is that fairness will be one of the considerations the government will bear in mind. So, we’ll –
Stefanovic:
So, it will be grandfathered?
Mulino: – be considering a range of factors. No, no. But we’ll be considering a range of factors. So, it would include the need for revenue. It would include fairness. It would include administrative simplicity. And those are all major considerations. And you can go back to the Henry Review and, in fact, all of the major tax papers going back decades and tax reform is always a matter of trying to achieve all of those high‑level objectives.
Stefanovic:
Okay. I mean, there’s just the question that I’ve got on shares, above property anyway, but, in particular, shares, and the question of fairness too. How is it fair that young people who perhaps and probably can’t afford a home, and I know this is happening in greater numbers, they’ve been turning their extra savings into the share market. Now, to have that clipped by the tax man even more, would that be a disincentive to invest?
Mulino:
So, look, what I’d say when it comes to young people is that when we go back to the 3‑day Economic Reform Roundtable, I think one of the most unanimously supported themes is that we need more intergenerational fairness, not just in our tax system but more broadly across policy. And just take a step back. We’ve done a whole heap when it comes to increasing housing supply. That goes straight to younger people –
Stefanovic:
Yeah, you’re well short of targets, though.
Mulino:
A range of other measures, but including, you know, the 5 per cent housing deposit, which is now available very broadly. So those are measures that are really going to be kicking in to benefit young people.
Stefanovic:
Yeah, but they also might be limiting supply now.
Mulino:
Sorry, just to clarify that question?
Stefanovic:
Yeah, that might also be limiting supply, the 5 per cent deposit scheme.
Mulino:
No, no. I think the fact that it’s going to be bringing more first home buyers into the market will be on balance, something that will increase the willingness of developers to bring projects forward. But look, there’s no doubt that there’s a number of factors in that market. So, look, we’re doing a whole range of things to help young people already, and there’ll be more things in the Budget.
Stefanovic:
All right. We’ll see. Okay. Just this point by the Opposition this morning, Dan, wondering if you’ve got a thought on it. So, Angus Taylor, he wants to double the amount of fuel storage onshore, so from 30 to 60 days. Have you got a reaction to that today?
Mulino:
Well, look, I’d just preface my response to that by saying, look, Angus Taylor is the minister in the previous government who saw the number of refineries fall from 6 to 2 and who had the brilliant idea of storing oil in another country over in Texas. But look, this government has done a lot of things to increase supply. We’ve seen measures to increase the number of shipments from overseas, and the PM himself has travelled to a number of countries. We’ve got an agreement with Singapore. We’ve seen the Export Finance Association given powers to help to finance shipments in the world where there’s very volatile prices. And there’s a whole bunch of other measures taken as well.
Look, when it comes to storage, I think Chris Bowen has indicated that the government is open to considering a range of other policies. But I’d just point to the fact that this government has done a lot and that we’ve already released significant reserves and continue to replenish those reserves.
Stefanovic:
There is a yearning and a strong push now that we need to have more fuel on store, though – onshore, I should say. So, would you be willing, or are you open to matching the Opposition policy today?
Mulino:
Well, look, I’m not going to be looking to Angus Taylor for policy in this space, given his track record. And I’m certainly not going to be looking to Angus Taylor for costings on various options. But, again, I’d just point to the fact that we’ve taken a heap of actions. And what that has meant is that the supply of oil, of petrol and diesel has been continuing to flow in Australia. We’ve taken actions to coordinate with other stakeholders, including state governments and industry, and we’ll continue to. And as Minister Bowen has indicated, we’ll look at a range of options. This government is very open to continuing to developing policy in this space.
Stefanovic:
Okay. Dan Mulino, always good to talk. We’ll chat to you again next week.