Sally Sara:
Daniel Mulino is the Assistant Treasurer and the Minister for Financial Services and joins me in the studio. Minister, welcome back to the programme.
Daniel Mulino:
Thanks very much for having me on.
Sara:
Before we get to the government’s legislative agenda, late last week the government announced it would intervene and cover the cost of delaying the ATO ban on credit card payments until the middle of next year. Did the ATO make the wrong decision or is it the government’s fault for not foreseeing this when you made the surcharge changes?
Mulino:
Well, Sally, can I just say that this is a really important policy reform that the government has implemented where consumers will now pay the price that is advertised when they tap their card. And this is something which was long overdue. We were an outlier and the RBA pointed this out when it came to surcharges, consumers rightly were very frustrated with the way that this had been working.
Now, when it comes to the ATO, the way that the ATO was proposing to implement this was for there to be a 2‑month transition which would have reflected the fact that a number of small businesses used credit cards and that a transition period was appropriate. The initial transition period would have covered the hump of most payments occurring in October and November. But look, we heard loud and clear that small businesses found that to be an insufficient transition period. We acted within just a few days and worked with the ATO to ensure that that transition period was extended to the end of the financial year. So, we listened to small business and acted quickly.
Sara:
In your view, is there scope to find new options for businesses which have previously relied on credit card to pay tax bills?
Mulino:
So, as part of the solution that was announced late last week, we have indicated that the transition period will run through to the 30th of June. We’ve also indicated that the Treasurer and myself have asked the ATO to work up options for what might be able to be put in place ongoing after 30 June next year. That might be based around hardship, but we’ll ask the ATO to come to us with options and I’ll have more to say on that in the not too distant future.
Sara:
The dollars and cents here, how much will this intervention cost Australian taxpay?
Mulino:
So, the final costs are to be finalised in MYEFO. The costs are partly dependent on ongoing negotiations between the ATO and the credit card companies. Those conversations will hopefully yield benefits for the taxpayer. But as I said the final costs will be announced in MYEFO.
Sara:
You’re listening to Radio National Breakfast. My guest is the Assistant Treasurer, Daniel Mulino. Well, turning to the parliamentary sitting week, the government is expected to introduce legislation to change the taxation arrangements for discretionary trusts. The Coalition is opposed. The Greens are worried. You’re watering it down. Can you actually get this through, do you think?
Mulino:
Well, look, we’re not watering this down. This is a very substantial review. This is about fairness in our tax system. It’s about trying to better align the taxes that people pay when they earn income through trusts versus when they earn income from working, from providing their labour. These are changes that have been called for by experts for decades, back to major reviews in the 1970s and all the way through the Howard government, the Henry review, even the Abbott government’s review. These changes to trust taxation have been called for. These are really important changes. I would say to the Opposition and to the Greens. They should engage with these much needed and fair reforms on good faith. And these are reforms that are needed for our tax system and for the fairness of our economy.
Sara:
The government has consulted on the proposed changes to the compensation arrangements for discretionary trusts. Are you making any changes from what was originally announced?
Mulino:
Well, look, I’ll let the bill be presented before getting into those kinds of details, but what I would say is that there have been some adjustments already made. For example, discretionary testamentary trusts. We’ve been working with stakeholders throughout this process and that’s appropriate. And that’s very normal with major tax reforms. It’s very normal that there be draft bills put out and that there be consultation on the details. This is a government that works through major reform proposals in a very methodical way. We listen to the concerns of stakeholders and we make adjustments where appropriate.
Sara:
The opposition has cited concerns about the impact this will have on small businesses. What could you do to mitigate the impact of these changes for small business operations?
Mulino:
So, look, we’ll have measures in the bill and I won’t preempt what the detail is there, but what I can say is this is a government that has taken a number of actions when it comes to small business. We’ve made the instant asset write off permanent. We’ve introduced loss carryback measures, a very significant amount of measures in the last Budget. The tax measures in the last Budget were about making our tax system fairer. And part of that fairness was about lightening the load on small business. So, there’s a raft of measures in the Budget that are flowing through to benefit small business already.
Sara:
Just on a separate issue, the Greens want the federal government to prevent the live streaming of a firing squad execution in the United States, which is scheduled to take place in December. It’s wanting to prevent the live streaming of that being available for viewing in Australia. Do you agree with that? Do you think it should be blocked from viewing here in Australia?
Mulino:
What I would say is that when it comes to digital media, this government has been very forward leaning. We’ve implemented the under‑16 ban, which was world‑leading and which countries all around the world are now looking at. We’ve worked towards a duty of care, in my own portfolio implemented the News Bargaining Incentive. So, we are constantly strengthening the arrangements in place for digital platforms. Look, when it comes to that particular measure, I’d have to look at the particular regulatory mechanisms in place. But the broader point that I would make is that we have been a world‑leading government when it comes to setting up appropriate guardrails on social media and digital platforms more generally.
Sara:
This is our closest strategic ally will be carrying out this execution which will be broadcast publicly. How does that sit with the federal government? Because these are the sort of spectacles that normally you’d expect in places like Iran or elsewhere.
Mulino:
So, I don’t want to comment on the domestic politics of any other country when it comes to matters like this. But what I would say again, in terms of the specifics of whether or not this should be shown on social media that we’ve been leaning in more generally on protections in that place. One of the things I think we need to grapple with is that we need to walk a fine line with social media between imposing protections where appropriate and making sure that people have the freedom to express themselves. This is a difficult balance at times and we’ve been putting in place a comprehensive framework of different regulatory arrangements that I think are world‑leading in this space.
Sara:
Daniel Mulino, thank you for coming in this morning.
Mulino:
Thank you.