ASHLEIGH GILLON:
Joining me this morning on the program is Labor's David Bradbury and Liberal's Bruce Billson, good morning to you both. Bruce Billson of course you're the Shadow Small Business Minister, will you be attending next week's Tax Forum and are you as optimistic as Penny Wong that this will bring out some results and that after these couple of days we'll see some changes?
BRUCE BILLSON:
Well no and no Ashleigh. I haven't been invited but I have certainly been very active in making sure that small business is represented at the forum. Initially there was just one dedicated small business representative that had been invited by the Government. We pointed out how ridiculous that was when small business employees are about 48% of the private sector workforce and they're experiencing many challenges right now. They have a number of really constructive ideas about how the Government could be more helpful for them. In terms of whether I'm optimistic about outcomes, not really. The form hasn't been good on these things. 2020 Summits, Henry Tax Review and all sorts of processes that make it look like the Government is engaging with people but not much comes out the other end of it. A constructive thing could be release the Henry Tax Review modelling and the work that was done for the Henry Tax Review so that everyone was well informed about budgets and budget impacts – that could be a useful step forward. I don't even think that will happen.
GILLON:
David Bradbury, Bruce Billson isn't the only one calling this a useless talkfest. What do you think the Government hopes to get out of it? What do you think are some realistic outcomes?
DAVID BRADBURY:
Well the first point I would make is emphasise the point that Penny Wong made and that is that the Henry Review was never expected to be a review that produced a single set of solutions that would be implemented on day one. That has not been the history of tax reform in this country. What the Henry Review did do was put in place a series of measures and suggestions that our Government and future Governments no doubt will draw upon when they embark upon the extensive process of tax reform. I hear the negativity from Bruce and his colleagues and none of that should surprise any of us, but one of the points that I'd make is that there is a lot of criticism from the Coalition about the Government's alleged failure to implement the recommendations of the Henry Review. Well, one of the biggest recommendations, recommendation number one, was in fact to introduce a mining tax. That's a mining tax that this Government is introducing and I must say that as I get out there and talk to people in the community, frankly I can't find anyone that is opposed to this mining tax. In the context of that we still have, from the Coalition, this relentless negativity where they will not support the very basic principle that Penny Wong stated there and that is we want to ensure that the big mining companies that are doing so well in the resources boom, that the benefits of that boom is being spread evenly. Why should miners continue to be taxed as concessionally as they are when at the same time small businesses, which Bruce pretends to represent, small businesses and other businesses throughout the economy are missing out on the opportunity for a tax cut. That's a tax cut that we want to extend to them. In terms of the broader question of tax reform we're committed through an evolutionary process to adopt a range of measures which will continue to secure the tax base but will ensure we've got a system that provides the necessary and appropriate incentives.
GILLON:
David Bradbury, you talk about not having critics of this mining tax, I think that is a bit unfair. We should point out a lot of groups are arguing it should be broader, some are arguing it shouldn't be in at all while many are arguing, and some of the Independents like Andrew Wilkie, are arguing that small miners are going to be impacted by this quite negatively and would like to see it as well. So, the composition of this mining tax has been very controversial and I think we need to make that point. Bruce Billson I do just want to go back to your portfolio...
BRADBURY:
...are you arguing the case for the Opposition on this one? I'm happy to respond to that.
GILLON:
David Bradbury I'm just pointing out that you said you've heard no opposition to the mining tax and that's obviously untrue so I'm just making that point.
BRADBURY:
I simply made the point that when I'm out in the community talking to real Australians out there that are wearing the very heaviest part of the tax burden when it comes to paying taxes and working hard in the community, the average Australian out there is scratching their head saying how is it that when we're in the middle of this resources boom and a large proportion of the people benefitting from this boom in fact are foreign interests, most Australians are simply asking the question of why is it too much for Mr Abbott and the Coalition to agree with a tax that seeks to ensure that there is some spreading of the benefit of that boom. Sure, there are people who disagree with some of the design aspects of the details of the tax but on the basic principle, I do not run into people in the community that have a different view, and that is a statement of fact from my experience out there in the community.
GILLON:
Well Bruce Billson I'm assuming your experience is quite different to that?
BILLSON:
Yeah, I think David has just illustrated the Labor tactic where you debate the label they want to give to something and hope nobody takes any notice of the detail. I mean it's like the ridiculous Clean Energy Future which is actually a carbon tax. This is where David and his colleagues get into trouble. They say, well the name is good how can you be against the name? Well most people are smarter than that and they've learned from the Labor Party that their sweet labels try to cover over a great deal of sourness in the detail. On the mining tax, there are market reports that they're likely to pay less because of the concessions that Prime Minister Gillard negotiated without a clear understanding of how the mining industry operates. The smaller and middle miners, they're the ones that need to borrow money and they'll be hurt by the design of this tax. You've got it paid on EBIT – that's earnings before interest and taxation – well if you pay interest on your loans that is a problem. The fact that the Government has conceded to the big miners that they can re-value the mines again and start depreciating them all over again, there is flaw on flaw on flaw about these things and the community is smart enough to realise that just as they're smart enough to know that carbon tax is going to hurt small business. David talks about tax cuts for small business. Well if he is talking about the company tax reductions that the Government is throwing around, only a third of small businesses are structured as companies and I've got to tell you that a vast majority of them aren't very profitable at the moment, David. In terms of the other concessions David was talking about small businesses are forced to spend a lot of money that is scarce at the moment.
BRADBURY:
But is that why you're opposed to it? I'm just trying to understand why you're opposed to it.
GILLON:
Okay I think you've both had your say on this and we're running out of time. Bruce Billson I just want to ask you about something that has caused a lot of angst within your Party Room in the last couple of weeks and that is Tony Abbott's approach to individual workplace agreements. Yesterday of course he reaffirmed that individual agreements won't be part of the Coalition's future industrial relations policy. When you are out speaking with small business owners, are they telling you that individual agreements are what they want to increase flexibility in the workplace?
BILLSON:
Well they're looking for flexibility, Ashleigh, and what Tony Abbott and I have been putting forward is the fact that in the current legal framework that Labor has introduced there are so-called Individual Flexibility Agreements. These frankly aren't all that flexible. So what we're focussing on is opportunities to make those Individual Flexibility Agreements flexible. Heather Ridout and others have come out saying that they promise much but deliver little. They're too hard to use, there are too many obstacles to securing that flexibility where an employer and employee can sit down and work out what is in their best interest for the business and for the individual, and working that through the Individual Flexibility Agreements. So, flexibility is very important. Tony Abbott and my colleagues and I have made it clear that there are mechanisms available in the current law and we seek to see how we can use to deliver flexibility that employers and I must say a number of employees are looking for.
GILLON:
David Bradbury an issue that is causing angst within Labor it seems is the pokies reform. We've seen of course that some of your Labor colleagues have been uneasy about some of these reforms being introduced. Yesterday the Daily Telegraph had a story that suggested it had contacted all NSW Labor MP's and it said that you were one of them which failed to voice support when contacted. Do you support the Government's gambling reforms?
BRADBURY:
Yes I do and I simply make the point that when journalists send an email to a bulk of people, if by some chance an MP doesn't respond by close of business that day then journalists are more than entitled to go out there and make the point that the person failed to respond and support those policies. But, it's not as if I was asked the question and refused to commit to it. I was asked the question and my position is on the public record. Whenever I've been asked the question on this issue I have made it very clear that I support the reforms that we're undertaking and I do that because there is a very serious issue out there when it comes to problem gambling and I think unfortunately when it comes to this debate there are a lot of vested interests generating a bit of cash behind the campaigns that they're running against this debate. But, there are an important group of people out there and they are the victims of problem gambling. Maybe not necessarily the problem gamblers themselves, their voice has not been heard in this debate. I think it's important to have a sensible debate around how to tackle problem gambling, but to do it in a way that recognises that the clubs and many other institutions in our community do a good job but we need to take those balanced interests in to account.
GILLON:
Okay, before we go I do just want to make the point that today is Julia Gillard's 50th birthday. Apparently she's getting a new puppy from her partner Tim Mathieson to mark the occasion. She's getting a Cavoodle, a cross between a King Charles Cavalier and a Poodle. Bruce Billson in the spirit of bipartisanship are you offering the PM your congratulations today?
BILLSON:
Absolutely. The Coalition offers the Prime Minister a very happy 50th birthday and on the gift, Tim has recognised very quickly that within the Labor Party politics that if you want loyalty, get a dog. So it's a good gift and we wish her a very happy birthday and a lovely dinner this evening.
GILLON:
David Bradbury?
BRADBURY:
Well I wish the Prime Minister a happy birthday. It's a great achievement reaching the age of 50 and we all look forward to doing that one day. She has achieved a great deal. She is one of only a very few individuals in this country that have served as Prime Minister before the age of 50 and I think that important achievement should be recognised. I hope today she has a little bit of time to celebrate that milestone and be refreshed and reinvigorated to carry on the good work that she does into the future.
GILLON:
David Bradbury and Bruce Billson we're out of time. We appreciate your thoughts this morning as always. Thank you.