FRAN KELLY:
The Assistant Treasurer David Bradbury announced this ban under Australia's consumer law yesterday and he joins us now. Minister, welcome to Breakfast.
DAVID BRADBURY:
Good morning Fran.
KELLY:
Do you agree with Richard Di Natale there? He says that outlawing these drugs could encourage manufacturers just to switch the chemical composition to circumvent the ban, and we could end up with things that are potentially more harmful with unknown toxicity.
BRADBURY:
Well that sounds like a case of arguing that we wave the white flag and give up any efforts to make sure that we regulate an area where these drugs are clearly dangerous. They're drugs that can kill and will kill if we don't take action to protect the community against them.
KELLY:
I think Senator Di Natale's point was that a law and order approach like this doesn't work and we need a more holistic, a smart approach to this.
BRADBURY:
Well I think that sounds to me like a backdoor approach to decriminalise drugs that are already out there, that are deemed to be illicit, deemed to be illegal, drugs that we know do harm. Now if that's a debate that people want to have, they're entitled to have that debate, but what we are facing are changes in the way in which these drugs that are dangerous can be put together. The chemical compounds are changing. It is important that while we continue to take the view – and I think this continues to be a pretty strong view in the community – that we should be protecting the community from these drugs, then it is our obligation to make sure that the laws keep up to speed with the chemical compounds of these drugs.
KELLY:
But how do the laws do that? There are thousands of these drugs available on the internet and elsewhere, how does banning 19 of them do that?
BRADBURY:
That's a good point and it's a point that I have made very clearly, that we don't see a national product safety ban as the most effective, or in fact the only way, of tackling this problem. This is very much an interim, safeguard measure that we've put in place to try and make sure that 19 identified drugs, where there are some cracks in State and Territory laws, to ensure that these drugs can be quickly taken off the shelves. How do we tackle the problem more generally? Well one of the things that we do is at a national level, through the Therapeutic Goods Administration, we list items on the Poisons Standard and we are calling on all of the States – and all of the States have effectively done this except for New South Wales and the Northern Territory – we're calling upon them all to ensure that there is automatic adoption of those prohibited drugs that are listed in the Poisons Standard into their own criminal laws within each State because drugs are generally combatted at level. But can I also make the point that at the national level, my Ministerial colleague Jason Clare, who has responsibility for customs, has also announced that we'll be reversing the onus of proof in relation to these matters so that anyone brining drugs into the country will have to demonstrate that they are safe and that will put the onus on those that are bringing, importing those drugs into the country – and that does occur in a legal fashion until such time as these drugs are prohibited – and he has also indicated that he wants to work very closely with State and Territory colleagues to make sure that we can introduce that reverse onus, not just in relation to the importation of these drugs, but in relation to their supply and distribution and advertising more generally across States and Territories.
KELLY:
If we look at the drug, the tragic case of Henry Kwan. Fiona Patten, CEO of the Eros Foundation which has been speaking out on this, says the drug compound that resulted in Henry Kwan's death is called NBOMe, she says it's not on the New South Wales banned list, that particular compound, and it wouldn't be caught by your Poisons Standard either.
BRADBURY:
Well that's not my advice. That's not my advice. My advice is that it is caught by the Criminal Code and also the Poisons Standard. Now to the extent that there is evidence of drugs that are of a dangerous nature such as these that are not currently the subject of effective regulation then we will act immediately to ensure that that's the case. But I make the point that my advice is that that is the case, that it is currently covered, and indeed we've been following closely, at arm's length obviously, but there have been enforcement activities and investigations going on in New South Wales in relation to individuals that may have been involved in the supply of those goods.
KELLY:
You're listening to RN Breakfast, it's 11 minutes to eight. Our guest is David Bradbury, Assistant Treasurer and Minister Assisting for Deregulation who announced the ban of these synthetic drugs over the weekend. David Bradbury, you're also the Member for Lindsay in Western Sydney and you hold that seat by 1.1 per cent. You support Julia Gillard to continue as Prime Minister until the election. Why would you, given your margin, and give today's Nielsen poll shows that Labor is headed for a massive defeat with a primary vote now below 30 per cent.
BRADBURY:
Look Fran, I've run in some tough elections over the years. I've run for the seat of Lindsay, this'll be my fifth time that I've run for the seat; I lost on two occasions, won on two occasions. There were elections I lost that people told me I was going to win. There were elections that I've won that people told me I was going to lose. And just to underline that point, just before the last election I think that my odds on Sportingbet were something like four or five dollars to one. Now, they're marginally higher than that at the moment but the reality is that a week is a long time in politics. There's no sugar-coating the fact that we are facing some very big challenges in terms of the community's response to the performance of our Government. I think we have been a very strong and effective Government. We've achieved a lot and we have to continue to prosecute the case.
KELLY:
You've been prosecuting the case for three years now, almost exactly three years, and the voters, according to all the polls, not just Nielsen today, are not backing you and that hasn't changed for a long time. What's changed is that on the weekend, Galaxy poll on the weekend and Nielsen today do show that if Julia Gillard was replaced by Kevin Rudd then the two-party preferred vote would change to 50-50; from a massive loss to an even-chance. Do you believe those polls, and if so, how can Caucus ignore that basic arithmetic?
BRADBURY:
Well look, I'm not going to comment on individual polls.
KELLY:
What about trends?
BRADBURY:
Obviously there have been trends in these polls as well, but Malcolm Turnbull, I understand, was twice as popular as Tony Abbott in the same poll so look I think to some extent there is a bit of a 'grass is greener on the other side' effect in these polls. The very rugged nature of the political debate in this minority Government has been such that it's taken a fair bit of sheen off both leaders, but I'd make the point that when it comes to leadership, Julia Gillard has achieved things as Prime Minister of this country that I think will stand up the test of time, that have made a profound impact on our country. I just want to share one example with you Fran, there are lots of people out there talking about the anatomy of the Prime Minister. I make this point: I reckon she's got more leadership capabilities in her small finger than the collective bodies of those critics of her that are out there. I've see her deliver things. Pricing carbon – when other Prime Ministers tried to do it, couldn't do it, she's done it. I saw her when it came to the National Disability Insurance Scheme and I make this point, that as someone who sat on the Expenditure Review Committee and understood just how difficult it was to make the savings necessary to make this scheme happen there were plenty of occasions when I felt that this was so hard, that it was so difficult to do, but I tell you what, it was the leadership of the Prime Minister that made it happen. Now I think there has been an effort to diminish the great achievements of this Prime Minister and our Government. People seem so intent to focus and obsess upon and crucify her and us for every mistake – no one's perfect – but I tell you what, the legislative achievements that we have delivered in Government will stand the test of time. Whether that's reflected in the views of the respondents to the latest Nielsen poll or not is another thing, but of course we will continue to make sure that at every opportunity we make the Australian public aware of the achievements that we've delivered in office, achievements that will make our country a better place.
KELLY:
David Bradbury, thanks for joining us.
BRADBURY:
Thanks very much Fran.