MCMANUS
One of the big stories that has been around for a few days now was held up again in breakfast this morning with Howard Sattler and Adrian Barich, this is the issue of the big headline in the paper - " MPs' $100 million threat on State Contracts" - this is to do with the fact that building giant BGC claims the State Government is punishing the company for giving evidence about union rorts to the Cole Royal Commission into the building industry. The twist that came out yesterday was the Premier Geoff Gallop confirming union boss Kevin Reynolds complained to him and 3 senior Ministers during an internal Labor Party meeting last week that BGC was securing too many State Government contracts.
This morning on the breakfast program on 6PR Senator Ian Campbell, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Federal Treasurer said he would be raising this with the Federal Family and Community Services Minister Amanda Vanstone - you say Senator Campbell the whole thing is outrageous -the way that it has unfolded in the past couple of days?
SENATOR CAMPBELL
Well I think it is outrageous if you are someone who has been waiting on the Homes West waiting list or if you are in a suburb waiting for a school to get built, that you have a policy that ensures that the person who is the best tenderer or the company that is the best tenderer, basically misses out. Now if you look at the figures in the West Australian this morning where they have done a comparison of the savings - the difference between the best tenderer and the next tenderer - just over $41 million worth of contracts, there was nearly a million dollars difference. Now a million dollars will buy you around 15 homes and over the amount of money the Federal Government puts into schools and housing in WA in one year alone, it's over $128 million, that ratio is roughly a million dollars for every say 42, would build you potentially 45 new houses a year and in fact it would more than pay for an entire primary school with 12 class rooms in it -so that is what we are concerned about, we want to make sure that Federal taxpayers money going to build public housing and schools in WA, builds the maximum number of schools, the maximum number of classrooms and the maximum number of houses and that policy outcome is not interfered with by a State Government that's got some, you know, radical ideological bent that it is trying to pursue.
MCMANUS
Now we have got Kevin Reynolds secretary of the CFMEU on the line, why did you ask the Minister to resist or to hold back on some of the work that BGC had become involved in?
REYNOLDS
Well firstly you want to get your facts right - I never asked the Minister to do that at all, I raised it with Geoff Gallop, the Minister was not even at the meeting, but I raised with Geoff Gallop and other Ministers at a WALAC meeting, we were concerned that employers who had enterprise bargaining agreements with the union, were being excluded from jobs and during the 2002 year, out of approximately 26 jobs, only two of those Government projects went to companies who pay properly. You see it seems to me Tony that the reward of having contractors on your sites involved in tax evasion, workers compensation evasion, payroll tax evasion, not paying workers holiday pay, sick leave and all of their entitlements - the reward for that is you get a Government contract, so we raised it and we make no secret of the fact we raised it, but the Minister was not at the meeting.
MCMANUS
Ian Campbell?
SENATOR CAMPBELL
Well I have made my case and that is that if the State Government wants to run a tender process that is very important, public works, that's houses for low income earners it is and houses for people with disabilities and classrooms for children, they need to make sure they have got a proper tender process, I don't think Kevin would disagree on that, a fair tender process, an open and a competitive tender process and the best tenderer wins.
REYNOLDS
But hang on Ian what the problem here is, is the best tenderer is the one who cheats the most.
MCMANUS
So Kevin, what's the evidence of that though?
REYNOLDS
Listen we can give you untold evidence - on many of these projects workers are receiving as little as $12 an hour, any gobs of amounts of evidence of that mate, there's no problem with that, it is happening everywhere, you see Len Buckeridge doesn't employ one carpenter or one builder's labourer or one brick layer.
MCMANUS
That's right they are sub contractors aren't they?
REYNOLDS
Everyone works for subcontractors, everyone, if he wants labour on there himself he gets it from trouble shooters or from a labour hire company, but those subcontractors to win work on them jobs, not just Len's jobs, but a whole range of different contractors, to win work on them jobs, they have to got to cut their margins so fine, they can't afford to pay the workers their holiday pay and their rostered days off. I think anyone who knows anyone who works in the construction industry, in particularly the housing side of it they know these guys work for an all up rate and they don't get holiday pay and they don't get sick leave, they don't get rostered days off, they don't get any of the provisions that are supposed to be paid to workers under an award.
SENATOR CAMPBELL
What is interesting here Tony is you've got the Labor Party, saying that this isn't about an anti-BCG policy, but Kevin Reynolds being honest enough to say that it is and the reality is....
REYNOLDS
No, no don't tell lies Ian, don't tell lies, I didn't say it's anti-BGC...
SENATOR CAMPBELL
Well you just spend the last two minutes telling us how bad Len Buckeridge and all his employees are.
REYNOLDS
No, listen he doesn't have any employees, what I am saying is that group of companies which he happens to be one of, but there is a whole group of companies in Western Australia at the moment, who have taken a deliberate decision to underpay the award and underpay workers. One particular company had all these workers on an Enterprise Agreement - he says - I can't win work like this, he sacked all the blokes, re-employed them the next day on 30% less in wages.
SENATOR CAMPBELL
This is not the issue Tony, the issue is that if you have got a fair tender process that has been run by both Liberal and Labor Governments and that the companies that go in the tender process obviously have to abide by the industrial laws and every other laws of the land.
REYNOLDS
Well they don't.
SENATOR CAMPBELL
Clearly they do otherwise some one would have taken action against them, they win these projects and what the State Labor Government is now doing is saying that we are not going to let them or any other company that wins 5 tenders in a row, gets excluded, so whether it's BCG, whether it's the Len Buckeridge company or whether it's another housing company, under this stupid policy if the Gallop Labor Government, which is clearly in bed with Kevin Reynolds and his mob, are clearly not going to be successful and that is stupid, we want the best tenderer, be it Buckeridge's mob or be it someone else to have a chance to win the contract, so we get more classrooms and houses built.
MCMANUS
Kevin Reynolds?
REYNOLDS
Let me just tell you one thing the last people I want to be in bed with is Geoff Gallop and the Labor Party, let me tell you that right from the start, I find better things to be in bed with than Geoff Gallop, but having said that, we don't believe this policy to be the end all either by a long shot, because it does nothing to about stopping contractors pricing work, using illegal labour, tax evasion and all the other things I have said. This policy from our point of view is not what we would want to see out of the Labor Government. What we would like to see out of a Labor Government is a policy that requires builders to be weighed up against their occupational health and safety responsibilities, their training responsibilities. This Government has previously said they don't care a stuff about training or about occupational health and safety or about anything other than the bottom line. Geoff Gallop has made it clear the lowest tenderer wins, what this Minister is trying to do is ensure is that one particular company doesn't win all of the eggs in the one basket sort of thing. Who would have thought that HIH was going to fall, who would have thought AMP were going to be in the State they are in...
MCMANUS
None of us Kevin in your business how much does a lollipop man earn?
REYNOLDS
Oh it depends where he works you know I am not going to tell you bullshit, if he is on big site and he's working a lot of hours he can earn $40,000 -$50,000 a year
MCMANUS
Plus?
REYNOLDS
Plus yeah plus, depending on the hours you work.
SENATOR CAMPBELL
Tony, I think one of the issues Kevin is worried about someone taking control of a particular industry or getting a monopoly position and it's pretty hard for anyone to take Kevin seriously when he runs one of the biggest monopolies in Western Australia. I am not here sticking up for the Buckeridge Group of Companies, I am here to say any person who can win 5 tenders in a row, should have a fair chance of winning a 6th and if you don't have a system that allows someone who can win 5 tenders in a row, who has obviously got the capacity to build more class rooms and more houses for a given budget, I mean we have got to raise the taxes, we raise $128 million worth of taxes federally to spend it on building low cost houses for people in WA, who can't afford to get a house themselves or who need assistance and particularly for disabled people.. We give the WA State Government money to build class rooms and I think all WA taxpayers would want to know that the Government of the Federal Commonwealth of Australia and the State Government make sure that every one of those dollars gets well spent building the most numbers of class rooms and the most numbers of dwellings - it's not going to happen under this Government's policy.
REYNOLDS
If you want to go down that track the next you thing you want to see is importing illegal labour, or getting labour into the country from countries where you are paying them $5 an hour, and you will be able to build more houses.
SENATOR CAMPBELL
I tell you what we want to know Kevin is we want to make sure the builders comply by the law; we want to make sure the unions comply the law. I tell you what we'd both live in a better State if the unions and the builders both complied with the law.
MCMANUS
Kevin just a final word from you?
REYNOLDS
Well the final word is we don't mind the lowest tenderer winning provided that the workers on the job, get paid their entitlements under the award - that means they get paid holiday pay and their annual leave and those things.
MCMANUS
But there is no evidence that that is not happening?
REYNOLDS
It's happening everywhere and we have got untold amounts of evidence
MCMANUS
Well what are you going to do with that evidence?
REYNOLDS
Let me just says this, all I can I say is this - old Len and Kevin Reynolds are getting very close to the end of their careers and if he thinks robbing workers all his life to leave it to his wife and kids is a good way to go, well I don't think they'll enjoy the money.