BRIDGET BRENNAN:
Good morning. Treasurer.
JIM CHALMERS:
Good morning, Bridget.
BRENNAN:
What’s your reaction to those shocking scenes we saw unfold in Pennsylvania?
CHALMERS:
Well, we’re relieved that former president Trump is ok and our hearts go out to the family of the man whose life was lost in the crowd and I think that the most important takeout from what we saw yesterday, these horrific scenes in Pennsylvania, is that we can’t let extremism and polarisation and violence be the norm in our democratic politics. Democracies are supposed to help mend and moderate our differences, not magnify and horrify them and unfortunately what we’re seeing with what feels like increasing regularity is the ugliness and the polarisation and the extremism in politics is leading to some of these diabolical and violent outcomes. Like a lot of people, I think Australians are concerned about the developments in politics around the world. We should be able to settle our differences with votes, not violence. And unfortunately, whether it’s on the steps of the Capitol on January 6 or whether it’s what we saw yesterday in Pennsylvania, we can see that politics is taking an ugly turn and I think people are worried about that.
BRENNAN:
What are the implications for Australia? Do public figures and political figures need to have more conversations about security, about how we bring the temperature down here in Australia?
CHALMERS:
Well, we’re in the hands of professionals, as was former president Trump yesterday and we take their advice seriously. They do a wonderful job in Australia and clearly, whether it’s the events yesterday or other events around the world, agencies in every country try to learn from what’s happened and try to adapt to that. There’s a role, obviously, in our country and in other countries for peaceful protests but we need to make sure that we disagree in nonviolent ways. Unfortunately, we saw the most extreme version of that yesterday in Pennsylvania.
BRENNAN:
What would you say to people who are reading conspiracy theories, not just online but also being spread in everyday conversations? I’ve even heard some here in Australia. It is concerning, isn’t it, Treasurer, that false information seems to be spreading rapidly online? What can the government do to counter this?
CHALMERS:
Look, I think this is one of the really concerning developments which turbocharges the extremism in our politics, the way that misinformation and disinformation and conspiracy theories can spread so freely and so easily around our communities and around our democracies and I think it’s really important that people get their news from trusted places. It’s important that people don’t believe everything that they read on social media. Even as these events were unfolding yesterday, I was on live TV as they unfolded and it wasn’t clear immediately what had happened. It’s really important that people don’t unnecessarily speculate.
It’s important that people don’t repeat and share information which is from sources which aren’t credible and unfortunately, we’re seeing more and more of that. And I spent a lot of time yesterday seeing the reactions to what had gone down in Butler, Pennsylvania and I think, unfortunately, as your question implies, there is so much misinformation, so much disinformation, so many conspiracy theories, and we need to make sure that we get our facts from trusted places.
BRENNAN:
Let’s move to the concerning allegations that are unfolding in relation to activities within the CFMEU, is it realistic that the government could potentially deregister parts of that union? And what sort of investigation is needed, do you believe, to get to the bottom of what’s going on in that union?
CHALMERS:
Look, what we’ve seen in the CFMEU and Victoria under John Setka is completely and absolutely unacceptable and abhorrent. My experience of union leaders is they are overwhelmingly good and decent people who want great outcomes for their members. My experience of the trade union movement is as a force for good in our communities and in our economy and in our country but you can’t say either of those things about the CFMEU in Victoria under John Setka. I think it’s right and appropriate that the Industrial Relations Minister Tony Burke has asked for a full range of options.
We will do whatever is necessary to clean up the CFMEU in Victoria to make sure that the sorts of revelations that we’ve seen over the weekend don’t happen again, so that unions can focus on doing what they’re supposed to be doing which is represent their members. That’s overwhelmingly what trade unions do in the labour movement in this country. Unfortunately, with John Setka and elements of that union in that part of Australia, we have seen some extraordinary accusations and allegations and revelations, particularly over the last couple of days and we’ll take whatever steps is necessary to clean that up.
BRENNAN:
Thanks very much for your time on the program, Jim Chalmers.
CHALMERS:
Thanks, Bridget.