GREG JENNETT:
Treasurer, great to have you with us from the National Conference. I know these things are fairly absorbing when it comes to time so we appreciate that. I'll come back to some conference questions in a moment but I think it's fair to say housing is the dominant issue after National Cabinet yesterday. We got three and a half billion dollars in additional incentives for housing construction but not a lot of detail. What's the breakdown over the five years ‑ how much of that money will come in the 12 months from July next year?
JIM CHALMERS:
First of all, it's really, I think, welcome to see the Prime Minister working with his state and territory colleagues rather than against them when it comes to one of the biggest challenges that we face in our economy which is housing supply. And so the three and a half billion dollars which were announced yesterday, 500 million of that is up‑front, to try and get some of these approved developments going so that we can build more supply as soon as possible. And the other $3 billion is at the end of a period, we think 2029, where we can incentivise states and territories who have built beyond their contribution to the million homes that I agreed with the state treasurers last year. So to get from a million aspiration to 1.2 million requires, in our view, some additional incentives for the states and territories. And so we've put that on the table in good faith at the same time as we've got, already, a broad and ambitious housing supply agenda. And at the same time, as we're trying to ease the pressure on renters by giving the biggest increase in Commonwealth Rent Assistance in 30 years.
JENNETT:
Okay, so that additional 3 billion that you're describing here, really doesn't come to the tail end when you're trying to pick up those last 200,000 homes?
CHALMERS:
Well, 500 million at the start, in addition to all of the other billions of dollars that we are investing in housing supply, and all of the steps that I've taken in my Treasury portfolio ‑ tax breaks for build to rent, some incentives for superannuation to invest more in more affordable housing. So in addition to all of that, an extra incentive to try and get another couple of hundred thousand homes built over the time period of the Housing Accord, which is 2024 to 2029. If states over‑perform on their original million, they can get their hands on that incentive to build some extra homes. Our economy and our communities desperately need more housing, as you know, and this is yet another way that we're prepared to come to the table to incentivise that.
JENNETT:
All right, you're moving on with the shared equity scheme named Help to Buy. The Prime Minister announced there at conference that it will start next year ‑ as we understand it, this needs to be coordinated through state legislation. What's the rollout there? Do all states start at the same time or will you release money as and when each state is prepared?
CHALMERS:
As you rightly identified, Greg, there's more legislative work to do between now and when the program starts next year. But one of the main things that we need to get right and need to take the time to get right, is the referral of state powers, which is that state legislation you're referring to. They need to refer the powers to us so that it's beyond doubt that we can provide this assistance to people. Programs like this exist in some of the states and territories already. In some places they've been operating for some time. And what we're doing is about 10,000 homes every year for four years ‑ we're making the proportionate amount of those available to each of the states and territories. Our intention is that it starts in every place at the same time and that's what the legislative program for the rest of the year is about delivering.
JENNETT:
Okay, and has the cost gone up on this in light of the fact that interest rates have? The last figure ‑ I think we saw 320 odd million dollars over four years ‑ has that blown out?
CHALMERS:
It has gone up Greg. It's not a number that's out in the public domain but our expectation is around $555 million over the Budget estimates. But as we legislate, as we refine, as we finalise, and we take into consideration this start date, we will update that figure in the usual way at the next opportunity which will be the mid‑year Budget update.
JENNETT:
The housing market is a lot tighter, I think it's fair to say now, than when this scheme was first designed. How can we be certain that what is an effective subsidy of 10,000 homes a year won't inflate housing markets ‑ individual spot markets ‑ scattered around the country?
CHALMERS:
Because the overwhelming weight of our housing agenda is about building more homes. Whether it's the couple of billion dollars for public housing that we announced in June ‑ whether it's the Housing Australia Future Fund, all of the other billions of dollars that we're setting aside to build more homes ‑ that is really where a lot of the heavy lifting will be done. You can get more people into homes if you build more supply and you can do that in a way that doesn't add to inflationary pressures and obviously, that's our goal.
JENNETT:
All right, on to unemployment up to 3.7 per cent in July. Can we now conclude that the historic, record‑low levels of unemployment through recent months and years are now behind us in this country?
CHALMERS:
It remains to be seen, but certainly our expectation for some time and I would have spoken with you about this, Greg, on other occasions, the expectations for some time in the Treasury forecasts has been that the unemployment rate will tick up a bit and that's what we've seen in the numbers released today. But it really is still pretty remarkable given everything that's coming at us from around the world, we've still got the unemployment rate near the middle threes, with a three in front of it, which is an extraordinarily strong foundation from which we face the uncertainties ahead. And so, yes, unemployment has ticked up a bit, that has been our expectation for some time that that would happen but 3.7 is not a bad outcome in the circumstances. The other numbers which came out today, Greg, what's really important is that in the first year of the Albanese Government, Australians are being paid on average, I think [$68] extra per week. One of our key aspirations in addition to keeping unemployment as low as possible is to get wages moving again and all indications are that they are.
JENNETT:
Why don't we move on to conference and slightly outside your portfolio, I suppose, but it'll attract your attention nonetheless. In your midst, you have the group, Labor Against War, claiming that Labor's rank and file overwhelmingly oppose AUKUS and that quote, `this is just the start of our campaign', they say. Now, if they don't succeed in removing AUKUS from the platform tomorrow, isn't it their clear intention that they'll keep coming back for more on this at each and every gathering ‑ state, national, this is going to dog Labor for a long time, isn't it?
CHALMERS:
I'm not sure about that, Greg. One of the reasons why we have these conferences is to give people the opportunity to express a view, it'd be pretty strange if we invited thousands of people here to Brisbane for a conference where everybody already agreed with everything. There's not a unanimous view in the party rank and file about that issue. There's not a unanimous view about a number of issues around the country and in the community at large, and so I think it's entirely appropriate and not especially troubling, frankly, that people raise issues like that. We'll see that tomorrow. But the Labor Cabinet decides the policies of the Labor Government, we take into consideration the views that are raised with us, and one of the one of the avenues that people have to raise issues with us is at a conference like this. We're the only party who does it like this. We throw the doors open. We have a genuine debate about issues that are really important, and at the end of the day, there is much more that we agree on than disagree on.
JENNETT:
Well, that's true, having been to a few of them, they are renowned for a barney but they're often resolved in some way, shape or form. Let's see what tomorrow brings, in fact, the next couple of days. Jim Chalmers, really appreciate your time again on the program. Thanks for joining us.