LAURA JAYES, HOST:
Jim Chalmers and Pat Farmer join me live now. Gentlemen, great to see you ‑ you look pretty fresh, I've got to say this morning. Pat, first to you ‑ could Jim keep up alright this morning or did you have to slow your pace down?
PAT FARMER:
I didn't slow down at all. He was sitting around the five minute ‘k’ pace, and he was running very strong. He's definitely been in training for this moment, I can see that and he pushed me pretty hard right at the start, but I got him on the hills, I think. He's better on the flats, he's pretty quick.
JAYES:
Well, your legs are looking much more tanned than Jim's at the moment. That's probably because Jim's been running in Canberra. We saw him a couple of months ago, do that. Jim, how was it this morning? Tell us about the people that joined you, and what was the vibe like?
JIM CHALMERS, TREASURER:
It was a real buzz, Laura, and I want to thank you, really. The inspiration for today came from ‑ I think it might have been Good Friday ‑ I was watching your program and Pat came on. We exchanged messages and I said that I'd come and run with Pat, and today we did. Pat's been a hero of mine for a long time, as you know, and Pat's on this long and important journey, just like Australia's on a long and important journey. So to run with Pat and talk about life and to talk about running, but most importantly, to talk about the Voice and how it's all about listening and recognition and getting better outcomes for people ‑ it was a real buzz today.
JAYES:
I'm glad to hear that because it is significant that both of you come from different sides of politics, and that's really what the Yes campaign wants to see ‑ all Australians come together to support this. But after running with Pat, and hearing what he's heard around the country, Jim, how confident are you?
CHALMERS:
Look, I'm confident that we can get there but it won't be easy. We've always anticipated that we will have to convince people that this is a pretty simple proposition. At the end of the day, it's about listening to people so we can get better outcomes and it's about constitutional recognition. And one of the things I really value about Pat's efforts ‑ and you're right, we serve different sides of politics, we're from slightly different generations, he's a much better runner than me, he's got some world titles that I don't have ‑ all of those differences but we've got one thing in common, and that's we're really in favour of this Voice to Parliament, we want to get it done. And one of the things I value about Pat's efforts, in addition to all the physical effort, is he's been going town to town around this big, beautiful country of ours, and he's been having conversations with people, not just people who agree with us, but people who still need to be convinced. And so I really appreciate that, Pat, and I really value it. We're very grateful for it. And I think, you can really see the commitment, the courage, that Pat has.
JAYES:
Pat, we've spoken to you along this journey at different times. You were running with Kenny Heatley ‑ I think that's the story that Jim saw that motivated him to do this with you today. But what is it that people are saying to you, as you've been on the road? What are their reservations? And what have you said, in response?
FARMER:
Well, there's two points with it, Laura. First thing is, many people can't understand why it is just such a simple question ‑ 'should Australians recognise both Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders in our Constitution through the Voice.' Most people can't understand, it is such a simple thing, why isn't it already done? And then the second thing that everybody is saying to me out there is, 'well, why don't they just do it? Why do we have to have a referendum to do that?' And I say to them, I remind them of the analogy like roads and transport, everyone can relate to that. And basically what happens is, if you only legislate and it doesn't go into the Constitution, then what happens is, if we get a change of government, then they can stop that road from being built. And they decide that they'll build a different road in a different area that might suit their electorates better, the same with rail infrastructure, etcetera etcetera. That's what's happened with many of the various Indigenous support organisations that have been set up for them in the past. And so by doing this, the Australian people are empowering the Indigenous people to take control of their own destiny. And it will save Australians a lot of money into the future because we'll be driving the right outcomes from the ground up rather than from the top down.
JAYES:
Jim Chalmers, that's the economic argument you've made as well but at this point ‑ as we're just a probably a couple of months out from the vote ‑ do you concede that your government needs to do better in selling it?
CHALMERS:
We've always understood, Laura, that we need to make the case and that's what all of us are doing enthusiastically. Pat's doing it in his way, we're doing it in our way, people right around Australia, including campaigners here on the Goldie in Southeast Queensland. We've got to convince people, we've got to talk to people, and we've got to engage them ‑ and not just people who already agree with us, and we've known that all along. We're trying to make a change here to the Constitution ‑ a simple but important change. And we're trying to get better outcomes for people at the end of the day, and that requires us to really lean into it, really put our back into it, and that's what we're doing.
JAYES:
Well, gentlemen, thank you so much for joining me this morning. I really appreciate you taking the time and I mean that. I'll let you get out of the rain. I think you need some bacon and eggs or something like that, so I'll let you get on with it ‑ and five minute k's, that's pretty impressive, I reckon. I'll see you soon.
FARMER:
Thank you so much, Laura.
CHALMERS:
Thanks Laura.