MICHAEL ROWLAND:
Treasurer, good morning to you.
JIM CHALMERS:
Good morning, Michael.
ROWLAND:
I want to get to the Budget. But let's talk about the integrity commission legislation possibly hitting Parliament as early as tomorrow afternoon. How far is the government prepared to go in terms of negotiating with the crossbench?
CHALMERS:
Primarily, Michael, this is a task for Mark Dreyfus and for Anthony Albanese. My focus, as you said in the introduction, is really on putting together this October Budget but it shouldn't be beyond this Parliament to agree a strong, workable national anti‑corruption commission and to move forward on that basis.
ROWLAND:
Okay. Peter Dutton has told Four Corners tonight that the Opposition may be willing to support the legislation if public hearings perhaps weren't included. Are public hearings going to be a key part of what you're aiming to achieve?
CHALMERS:
Again, a matter for the discussions that Mark and Anthony and others are having right across the Parliament, as you'd expect. But we've made our views pretty clear about the national anti‑corruption commission. It makes no sense that there's been this hole in the Commonwealth's armoury when it comes to making sure that the decisions taken in Canberra are above board. That's what the national anti‑corruption commission is all about. We'll settle the model with the Parliament and we'll move forward.
ROWLAND:
Okay, let's go to the Budget. As you're describing, the Budget you'll deliver in roughly a month's time is a bread and butter Budget. Treasurer, what does that mean exactly?
CHALMERS:
It means it will be a pretty solid, pretty workmanlike, pretty basic Budget which implements the commitments that we made in important areas like childcare, cleaner and cheaper energy, more skills and better training for more Australians ‑ these commitments that we took to the election which we will deliver in the Budget in October. So it will be an opportunity to provide responsible cost‑of‑living relief, an opportunity to invest in people and their future. And also an opportunity to begin to deal with this legacy of wasteful spending in the Budget, the costs of which are going up and up and up as the cost of servicing the trillion dollars in debt that we have inherited increases with interest rate rises.
ROWLAND:
Okay, you talk about spending, wasteful spending, as you describe it. Therefore, can we expect spending cuts in the Budget?
CHALMERS:
There will be, Michael. We've said for some time there's an opportunity to trim spending, that some of the wasteful spending which became a hallmark of Budgets under our predecessors does need to be wound back in some fashion and that's what Katy Gallagher and I have been engaged in for much of recent months. What your viewers need to understand, Michael, as we deal with these difficult international conditions ‑ and we've got our own fair share of challenges here at home ‑ that when you've got a trillion dollars in the Budget as we've inherited from our predecessors, and interest rates are rising, it costs more and more to service that debt, billions of dollars more that we have to find in the Budget to service that debt. And that means more than ever that we need to make sure that the investment that we make in the Budget delivers genuine bang for the buck, whether it's providing cost‑of‑living relief with an economic dividend, whether it's investing in skills and energy and the future resilience of our economy, that's the task of the October Budget.
ROWLAND:
Okay. We know last year the financial outcome is going to be a bit better care of higher revenues and reduced spending. But you've also said, Treasurer, heading into next year and certainly approaching the next election, you want to start a conversation with voters about the Budget being in structural deficit going forward and the potentially tough decisions you'll have to make. Will you start that conversation by being frank with voters that any decisions will have to involve tax increases to get that structural deficit down a bit?
CHALMERS:
We've said for some time that in areas like multinational tax reform, there's a role to play there. And it needs to be in combination with trimming spending where it's been wasteful and growing the economy the right way so that we can get a handle on this trillion dollar debt problem that is costing more and more to service. We've been up‑front about that really, for some time now. There does need to be a combination of all three things and the point that I'm making in saying that I want to have a national conversation about how we fund the things that we really care about as a society and not just as an economy ‑ I'm encouraging people to see this first Budget, which will be a pretty solid Budget in October, as the beginning and not the end of that process. There'll be three, maybe four Budgets in the life of this government if it runs full term. And that means that we will have the opportunity to engage people and consult people on the way forward. We've got big growth in spending in areas like servicing the debt, but also the NDIS, health, aged care and defence. That is a combination of unavoidable spending and desirable spending. We need to make room for it. And we will include the Australian people in a national conversation about how we do that.
ROWLAND:
As Treasurer, does widespread tax reform interest you at all?
CHALMERS:
I'm interested in tax reform when it comes to multinational ‑
ROWLAND:
But beyond that which you were clear with voters ahead of the last election, but widespread tax reform looking at the GST, looking at personal income tax and other measures? Because every economist will tell you, our tax system is in dire need of reform.
CHALMERS:
I welcome the views that get put forward by people about the state of our tax system. We do need to make sure that it's sustainable. And I think the best place to start is multinationals. You can't do everything at once, you need to make sure that there is a good case to move forward on reform. I think the good case exists when it comes to multinationals. And that's what our focus has been.
ROWLAND:
Okay. Just before you go, to another issue ‑ the Indigenous Voice to Parliament, the referendum the government has committed to. A poll out today showing 64 per cent of people surveyed would vote yes. Are you heartened by that?
CHALMERS:
I'm really heartened by that to be honest, Michael. I think that's a reflection of the understanding that Australians have that this is a pretty simple proposition ‑ whether First Nations people have a Voice to Parliament here in Canberra and whether the Parliament listens to them. It's a simple proposition, it's something that we should be able to move forward on together and I'm heartened by the support that we see right around the Australian community for this pretty simple but important step.
ROWLAND:
Okay, Treasurer, really appreciate your time this morning. Thank you.
CHALMERS:
Thanks, Michael.